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National Anthem this season?

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Sawyer

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Aug 3, 2001
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Anyone concerned about how college basketball players will handle the "kneeling issue" this season when the National Anthem is played before games?

My vote would be to keep the teams in the locker room until it is played, similar to the way college football handles it. College basketball certainly doesn't need any more problems than it has right now.
 
to be devils advocate, if you don't have the freedom to do what you want then you don't have freedom. turns out the people who oppose kneeling are the ones who are actually unamerican in that they don't want you to have freedom. they are the same ones expecting you to live by their religious views no matter what yours are. freedom comes at the cost of having those you hate most being able to express themselves. goes both ways. if you tell them they cannot play you are forcing your opinions onto their lives. that's oppression not freedom. they are the ones who only want to hear like minded opinions and not opposing ones. to quote solomon burke-"none of us are free if one of us is chained"
 
Well, we have the freedom of the press. freedom of free speech, right to peaceable assemble, freedom of religion, and the right to bear arms. However, we do not have the right to disrespect our Constitution or our flag. I have zero tolerance for the kneelers. I respect thier opinion as we live in a free nation, but do not respect how they are expressing thier opinion. Also, most of these men have never served or defended thier country! I am sorry as a retired military man I cannot respect those, who do not respect thier own Nation.
 
when did kneeling become about disrepecting our flag? not one single player has said their kneeling is about that. that's politicians on the right creating discourse

If you have never taking this Oath you will never understand, The Oath is:

I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed ...
 
Well, we have the freedom of the press. freedom of free speech, right to peaceable assemble, freedom of religion, and the right to bear arms. However, we do not have the right to disrespect our Constitution or our flag. I have zero tolerance for the kneelers. I respect thier opinion as we live in a free nation, but do not respect how they are expressing thier opinion. Also, most of these men have never served or defended thier country! I am sorry as a retired military man I cannot respect those, who do not respect thier own Nation.
That's pretty much how I feel about this issue as well. I really love my country and it cuts deep to see THE main symbol disrespected in such fashion.

Protesting in itself is every American's constitutional right but there are lines that should not be crossed. IMO everyone can protest as long as they are not inciting violence. The moment any protest crosses that line then it's no longer a protest. It's a crime. Everyone should respect everyone's rights and be thoughtful. For instance, blocking traffic while protesting is putting others at risk and should not be tolerated. Just common sense stuff.

Also, the pro athletes who are protesting have a platform because they are pro athletes. They don't need to protest while on the job. It's mixing social political view points and work. Honest question, how many here could do what these pro athletes are doing and stay employed? Can you protest while at work? I can't. There are rules and policies that plainly point out that it's just not allowed. I CAN however protest ON MY OWN TIME if I so choose.

I choose not to watch NFL games as my OWN form of protest. That is my right. Seeing how the NFL ratings are something like 31% down, it appears I'm not alone.
 
And I will have the freedom to stay home.

That flag is the one thing that represents ALL of our freedoms. To sit, kneel, go, stay home, whatever.

Therefore it is the one thing EVERYONE should stand and respect since it represents our freedom to throw our hissy fit(s).
 
I personally respect our country and flag and will always stand (if able) during the playing of our National Anthem. I also respect the rights (not the person) of anyone who chooses not to but I'm not going to cry if someone holds that against them like not giving them a job or don't buy their jerseys or possibly even support their team. In comparison, I am almost more upset about when they took the Pledge of Allegiance out of schools because if you can't support the flag and what it means, I think you have given up some of those rights that are provided under the constitution.
 
I suspect that the universities are all over this regarding their student athletes behavior during the anthem and I also suspect there will be an effort to highlight the true issue related to the kneeling via sanctioned and planned demonstrations while simultaneously honoring the traditions of the anthem.

I doubt we'll see much in the way of NBA demonstrations either...I think this is a uniquely NFL thing.
 
to be devils advocate, if you don't have the freedom to do what you want then you don't have freedom. turns out the people who oppose kneeling are the ones who are actually unamerican in that they don't want you to have freedom. they are the same ones expecting you to live by their religious views no matter what yours are. freedom comes at the cost of having those you hate most being able to express themselves. goes both ways. if you tell them they cannot play you are forcing your opinions onto their lives. that's oppression not freedom. they are the ones who only want to hear like minded opinions and not opposing ones. to quote solomon burke-"none of us are free if one of us is chained"

Doesn’t sound like you’re being the devils advocate. Sounds like darn strong opinions. As someone who served in the Army for 24 years I have defended ones right to protest. But I to have the right to my beliefs and my belief is you always stand for the anthem and our flag. To show respect for our country, but more importantly for those who are serving, those who served, and most importantly those who paid the ultimate sacrifice (And their families). Those who paid the ultimate sacrifice come in all races, genders, shapes and sizes. It’s not exclusive to any one category. So my protest is not to participate in a sport as a fan if the athletes decide to kneel. By the way try staging a protest at your job. See how far that gets you. You do not have the right to protest at your work. These athletes live in a fantasy world.
 
so wilkie, what you are saying we all have freedoms as long as you agree with them but if you don;t agree then no freedom? that's unamerican. and neither the pledge of allegiance nor the constitution say you have to stand for the national anthem. basically, the original protest was because white policeofficers are killing black men without any punishment. do you think any black person who has been oppressed, killed, denied a job, denied good housing, denied lower loan rates, been unjustly jailed, been beaten,m threatened, do think any of those people or their families are thanking our country and our soldiers for the freedom they are given? is there any black person on the board protesting the kneeling or only white people who have been part of the problem not the solution? freedom is allowing others who you hate, no matter what they do, if it's peaceful and not harming you, you have to live with that or you are not american. anyone trying to stop the kneeling is not an american and maybe you should find another country to love in because it seems you have no concept of what freedom is. freedom is the ability to kneel, stand, crap, or sing during the anthem and its not your right to tell me what to do. i am a free man, not someone you can tell me what to do. btw, how many of our soldiers in fighting for your freedom have killed innocent children raped women, left bastard children around the world, pillaged, and stole from other counties, forced our opinions on them, all so you could tell a black football player what he could and couldn't do
 
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to be devils advocate, if you don't have the freedom to do what you want then you don't have freedom.

You CAN do whatever you want, just don't cry when someone else expresses their freedom not to like what you do, not hire you for a job, fire you, sit your ass on the bench, dock your pay, not attend games, don't buy merchandise, completely boycott your sport. Etc. Etc.

Get the picture ??
 
so wilkie, what you are saying we all have freedoms as long as you agree with them but if you don;t agree then no freedom? that's unamerican. and neither the pledge of allegiance nor the constitution say you have to stand for the national anthem. basically, the original protest was because white policeofficers are killing black men without any punishment. do you think any black person who has been oppressed, killed, denied a job, denied good housing, denied lower loan rates, been unjustly jailed, been beaten,m threatened, do think any of those people or their families are thanking our country and our soldiers for the freedom they are given? is there any black person on the board protesting the kneeling or only white people who have been part of the problem not the solution? freedom is allowing others who you hate, no matter what they do, if it's peaceful and not harming you, you have to live with that or you are not american. anyone trying to stop the kneeling is not an american and maybe you should find another country to love in because it seems you have no concept of what freedom is. freedom is the ability to kneel, stand, crap, or sing during the anthem and its not your right to tell me what to do. i am a free man, not someone you can tell me what to do. btw, how many of our soldiers in fighting for your freedom have killed innocent children raped women, left bastard children around the world, pillaged, and stole from other counties, forced our opinions on them, all so you could tell a black football player what he could and couldn't do
You are really reaching. wilkie never said the 'kneelers' couldn't kneel. He simply said he doesn't respect them kneeling. I don't respect them either. They could use the platform they have to unite us instead of trying to rip us apart. They could use their fame status to reach out in a positive way and make real change happen. Social equality is what the people who don't consider themselves equal cry for. Stand up and make a difference. If we all can't unite over the symbol of our country and try to make things better, then we are doomed to burn much like Rome did.

BTW, if you have a job where you report to work, punch in on a time clock, then I would love to see you protest while your employer looks on while 'on the clock'. That probably would be a career limiting move. Just saying.
 
to put it simply if you believe america is the land of the free you cannot tell anyone what to do. hence when you do you've taken away their freedom and hence america is not the land of the free. and if you are black in this country, history and current events show that you do not have the same freedoms as white people yet white people expect black people to behave exactly as they tell them. you cannot tell anyone to sit stand kneel pray sing talk or do whatever during the anthem because they have the freedom in the country to do so. and i can post hundreds of videos of military veterans who fought overseas who agree with the kneeling because oit's their american right to protest peacefully. not your right to stop them.. thats what every soldier fought and fights for and you cannot sit here and tell me i have to do something you say then tell me i'm free. that's the basic point everyone who disagrees with it is missing that when you try to tell them they have to behave the way you want thats oppression and that's the entire reason colin knelt in the first place to bring light to the oppression of black people that continues to this day. funny how people are so pissed about this but don't mind a president who lies constantly, supports bigots and white supremacists and has made a mockery of the office of the president which upholds our flag and there's no problem with him being unamerican and disrespecting our entire country,. but hey he probably looks like you and talks like you so you probably agree with him and his unamerican values
 
Kinda off topic, but I auditioned to sing the national anthem at U of L games with four other friends as a quintet. Hopefully we are selected to sing it!

And all five of us will be standing if we are selected to sing at one of the games.
 
glassmanJ, you are missing the main point. Not one single person in the discussion has shown any type of oppression towards anyone. Why label PEOPLE? IDC if you are white, black, red, or yellow. People are just people in my eyes. I personally live my life with the vision Dr. King had for ALL of us. Do not judge anyone by the color of their skin. I only judge a person by their ACTIONS, and the CHARACTER they display. The longer you continue to label people, the longer we have to deal with racism in this country.
 
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to put it simply if you believe america is the land of the free you cannot tell anyone what to do. hence when you do you've taken away their freedom and hence america is not the land of the free. and if you are black in this country, history and current events show that you do not have the same freedoms as white people yet white people expect black people to behave exactly as they tell them. you cannot tell anyone to sit stand kneel pray sing talk or do whatever during the anthem because they have the freedom in the country to do so. and i can post hundreds of videos of military veterans who fought overseas who agree with the kneeling because oit's their american right to protest peacefully. not your right to stop them.. thats what every soldier fought and fights for and you cannot sit here and tell me i have to do something you say then tell me i'm free. that's the basic point everyone who disagrees with it is missing that when you try to tell them they have to behave the way you want thats oppression and that's the entire reason colin knelt in the first place to bring light to the oppression of black people that continues to this day. funny how people are so pissed about this but don't mind a president who lies constantly, supports bigots and white supremacists and has made a mockery of the office of the president which upholds our flag and there's no problem with him being unamerican and disrespecting our entire country,. but hey he probably looks like you and talks like you so you probably agree with him and his unamerican values

Are you descended from a "Man without a Country"? Look it up, you sound like him.
 
to put it simply if you believe america is the land of the free you cannot tell anyone what to do. hence when you do you've taken away their freedom and hence america is not the land of the free.

I think you have a misconception of what freedom is. Freedom doesn't mean you can do whatever you want. For example, if you work for someone, you follow their rules if you want to keep your job, if you don't you'll likely get fired. If you want to drive 80 because youre in a hurry, don't be surprised when you get a ticket. If you go out steal something because you want it, don't be surprised when you go to jail..

Colin kapperdick decided he wanted to kneel during the ANTHEM last year, All the team owners decided they don't need someone like that, now he's unemployed. See how that works..
 
I think you have a misconception of what freedom is. Freedom doesn't mean you can do whatever you want. For example, if you work for someone, you follow their rules if you want to keep your job, if you don't you'll likely get fired. If you want to drive 80 because youre in a hurry, don't be surprised when you get a ticket. If you go out steal something because you want it, don't be surprised when you go to jail..

Colin kapperdick decided he wanted to kneel during the ANTHEM last year, All the team owners decided they don't need someone like that, now he's unemployed. See how that works..
Exactly. There are rules, policies, laws, regulations, and frankly common sense thought processes that we ALL need to abide by, like it or not. If we don't have that, then we have anarchy.
 
I’d be curious to know how many of the people expressing the opinion that kneeling during the anthem actually know what the “rules” are regarding the flag and how it can be displayed. My guess is given the attention given the topic lately - most have heard or know some.

How many of you started boycotting the nfl years ago for having those field covering flags displayed horizontally? How many of you have clothing that has the flag on it?

People can say whatever they’d like but what it boils down to is a division in race. Adding in the element of economic status just ratchets up the aggravation. How dare those spoiled ungrateful (black) football players kneel during the anthem?? I mean, don’t they know how “lucky” they are?? They should just shut up and continue to collide into one another for my enjoyment.

You know “kaeperdick” took a knee at the suggestion of a veteran, as kneeling is not deemed disrespectful. When a player is hurt, everyone takes a knee out of respect. How anyone got the idea that it was disrespectful is beyond me.

It would be interesting if nfl players - black or white - decided to take a knee to raise awareness about child abuse. I wonder how many people would be boycotting then? Oh sure, some might have an issue with it but, about 0% would have the balls to let out a peep - including trump. But black guys protesting police brutality? That’s something to get on your high horse and be vocal about - lol.

I simply don’t get the blank eyed devotion to a piece of cloth. It’s only a symbol. It’s the ideas behind it - though we struggle as a nation and a people to live up to them - that are what America is built upon.
 
I’d be curious to know how many of the people expressing the opinion that kneeling during the anthem actually know what the “rules” are regarding the flag and how it can be displayed. My guess is given the attention given the topic lately - most have heard or know some.

How many of you boycotted the nfl for having those field covering flags displayed horizontally? How many of you have clothing that has the flag on it?

People can say whatever they’d like but what it boils down to IMO, is a division in race. Adding in the element of economic status just ratchets up the aggravation. How dare those spoiled ungrateful (black) football players kneel during the anthem??

You know “kaeperdick” took a knee at the suggestion of a veteran, as it was not disrespectful. When a player is hurt, everyone takes a knee out of respect. How anyone got the idea that it was disrespectful is beyond me.

It would be interesting if nfl players - black or white - decided to take a knee to raise awareness about child abuse. I wonder how many people would be boycotting then? Oh sure, some might have an issue with it but, about 0% would have the balls to let out a peep. But black guys protesting police brutality? That’s something to get on your high horse and be vocal about - lol.

I simply don’t get the blank eyed devotion to a piece of cloth. It’s only a symbol. It’s the ideas behind it - though we struggle as a nation and a people to live up to them - that are what America is built upon.

That's just it, there is no clear or concise evidence that police officers are targeting or brutalizing blacks any more than any other race. As a matter of fact, you are less likely to be brutalized or shot or killed by a police office if you ARE black. Pull up the statistics. WHITE people are shot and killed more often than black people are by the police. That's the cold hard truth. The fact that a few horrific tragic incidences have taken place and painted a narrative doesn't make it the truth all the time. Look up the stats. You want to know who is shooting and killing black people? Black people are; generally speaking of course. You need to look no further than Chicago for that fact.

Here I'll save you the trouble. It's from the Washington Post. I think we can all agree they lean left in political ideology.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-2017/
 
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It would be interesting if nfl players - black or white - decided to take a knee to raise awareness about child abuse. I wonder how many people would be boycotting then?

Piss poor argument.. But to answer you question, speaking for myself of course, I can assure you, I still wouldn't like it..

There's plenty other times and places for that, at a Game where people paid money to get in to, is not the place to take up an agenda.

What makes this whole kneeling thing even more worthless is, the majority of the people don't even know why the players are kneeling, they just know they're predominantly black and they're disrespecting the flag. So what purpose is it serving except for making things more divisive than they were before this started.
 
Piss poor argument.. But to answer you question, speaking for myself of course, I can assure you, I still wouldn't like it..

There's plenty other times and places for that, at a Game where people paid money to get in to, is not the place to take up an agenda.

What makes this whole kneeling thing even more worthless is, the majority of the people don't even know why the players are kneeling, they just know they're predominantly black and they're disrespecting the flag. So what purpose is it serving except for making things more divisive than they were before this started.
I know why, and the made up reason to push a narrative is just another reason why I don't respect the action. I really don't care about race. I've been in an interracial marriage for almost 30 years so I dare any of you to question my thoughts about race. The 'cause' in this case is bogus and is just a left leaning narrative trying to lead all of us down a path towards hating each other. Divide and conquer seems to be the theme of the last decade. I for one am fed up with it. I'm looking for peace for all. That's all I want.
 
That's just it, there is no clear or concise evidence that police officers are targeting or brutalizing blacks any more than any other race. As a matter of fact, you are less likely to be brutalized or shot or killed by a police office if you ARE black. Pull up the statistics. WHITE people are shot and killed more often than black people are by the police. That's the cold hard truth. The fact that a few horrific tragic incidences have taken place and painted a narrative doesn't make it the truth all the time. Look up the stats. You want to know who is shooting and killing black people? Black people are; generally speaking of course. You need to look no further than Chicago for that fact.

Here I'll save you the trouble. It's from the Washington Post. I think we can all agree they lean left in political ideology.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-2017/
The “evidence” is subjective depending on your predisposition on the subject. Using the data from the article you posted actually brings it more into focus. When blacks make up 12% of the population but represent 23% of the number killed by police - and whites 64% of the population but represent 47% of the number killed by police, I’d say statistically speaking - you’re a lot more likely to be killed by a cop if your black.
 
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Piss poor argument.. But to answer you question, speaking for myself of course, I can assure you, I still wouldn't like it..

There's plenty other times and places for that, at a Game where people paid money to get in to, is not the place to take up an agenda.

What makes this whole kneeling thing even more worthless is, the majority of the people don't even know why the players are kneeling, they just know they're predominantly black and they're disrespecting the flag. So what purpose is it serving except for making things more divisive than they were before this started.
Lol. I’m gonna guess that the majority of what makes my argument “piss poor” is that it is 180 degrees from your beliefs. Funny how it works out like that.

You may not like it - I actually addressed that possibility in my piss poor post. But as I said then, doubtful you’d have the balls to speak out against it - even anonymously.

There has been a lot of similar sentiment expressed about there being “plenty other times and places” for the players to express themselves. When are those times actually and how would they be better than doing it when it has the biggest impact? And how would doing it at a less impactful time solve the “problem” you address about the majority of people not knowing why they’re doing it?

The fact is - this is s topic being discussed again for one reason - trump decided to try and fire up his supporters and distract the public from paying attention to important things.

Please someone provide a rational explanation for why kneeling is disrespecting the flag? Are you disrespecting your god if you kneel to pray?
 
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I know why, and the made up reason to push a narrative is just another reason why I don't respect the action. I really don't care about race. I've been in an interracial marriage for almost 30 years so I dare any of you to question my thoughts about race. The 'cause' in this case is bogus and is just a left leaning narrative trying to lead all of us down a path towards hating each other. Divide and conquer seems to be the theme of the last decade. I for one am fed up with it. I'm looking for peace for all. That's all I want.
Cue - I respect your opinions and enjoy your posts - I think you know that but, to suggest that we are talking about this because of a “left leaning narrative” is just silly.

trump fanned the flames in this for political purposes and in doing so, for all intents and purposes, dared the players to take a knee. Based upon his rhetoric surrounding Charlottesville, he knew they would and that it would distract attention from his administration.

He knew what he was doing totally. He may not know the first thing about being potus but, he is a master at manipulating people.
 
you know why they don't make adults recite the pledge of allegiance? because of the last line "with liberty and justice for all" is not true in this country. again, no law states anyone has to stand for national anthem and if you tell me i have to you are restricting my freedom of speech.

and finally, if you are one of the ones who is pissed, well that's just an emotion. get over it. someone is exercising their first amendment right to free speech and peaceful protest and you have a problem with that? again if you do you don't understand what freedom is or what it's like not to have it.
 
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Cue - I respect your opinions and enjoy your posts - I think you know that but, to suggest that we are talking about this because of a “left leaning narrative” is just silly.

trump fanned the flames in this for political purposes and in doing so, for all intents and purposes, dared the players to take a knee. Based upon his rhetoric surrounding Charlottesville, he knew they would and that it would distract attention from his administration.

He knew what he was doing totally. He may not know the first thing about being potus but, he is a master at manipulating people.
Of course he knew what he was doing, and it worked. Not disputing that at all. BTW, I stopped watching the NFL long before Trump did what he did. Kaperdick made that decision for me along with Goodell decision to do nothing.

I choose not to support the NFL in any way. I won't watch any NFL game. I won't buy any NFL gear. I won't go back either for two reasons. The first is I am very stubborn. The second is they're now talking about standing for the National Anthem but not because they want to, but because they see $$$$ flying out the window.

Regarding the link I provided. There have been 700+ people killed by cops this year nationwide. We have over 350 MILLION people living in this country. Do you honestly believe this 'cause' is a worth while cause to pursue? Seriously?
 
Of course he knew what he was doing, and it worked. Not disputing that at all.

Regarding the link I provided. There have been 700+ people killed by cops this year nationwide. We have over 350 MILLION people living in this country. Do you honestly believe this 'cause' is a worth while cause to pursue? Seriously?
Whether I believe it is a worthwhile cause to pursue is really immaterial - they obviously do and it’s their right to act on that belief. There have always been those who suggested protests were somehow not needed or legitimate enough to meet their threshold.

I don’t watch the nfl because I enjoy college FB 1000% more and sitting in front of the TV all weekend rather than doing other things with my wife and kids or friends seems a little silly.

That said, if I liked the nfl the kneeling wouldn’t bother me a bit - not only for the reasons that I mentioned earlier but also because I’m able to compartmentalize that action from the game.
 
Whether I believe it is a worthwhile cause to pursue is really immaterial - they obviously do and it’s their right to act on that belief. There have always been those who suggested protests were somehow not needed or legitimate enough to meet their threshold.

I don’t watch the nfl because I enjoy college FB 1000% more and sitting in front of the TV all weekend rather than doing other things with my wife and kids or friends seems a little silly.

That said, if I liked the nfl the kneeling wouldn’t bother me a bit - not only for the reasons that I mentioned earlier but also because I’m able to compartmentalize that action from the game.
Fair enough. Still IMO there needs to be a good reason to take a stand on something or you'll fall for anything. This particular issue hits close to home for me mainly because I have lost good close friends who were defending that flag, and unlike you I am unable compartmentalize it. I won't dishonor their memories for any reason and especially for what I think is a fake cause.
 
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