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LPT thinks we run the "offense of the future"...

zipp

zipp

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Jun 26, 2001
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Some of our fans have questioned the logic of Petrino trying to adapt his offense. Specifically, Petrino adding a dual threat QB to his traditional offense.

Since Saturday's LPT debacle and after viewing mobile QBs run all over them this year, LPT fans have asked why they don't add a dual threat QB to their offense. I'm now listening to a podcast of a Lexington sports talk show from Tuesday nite where the host referred to the "offense of the future", what Petrino is trying to do and the offense that other successful schools are running.

Now, I'm the last guy to embrace what any LPT fan thinks about football, and these people may be dead wrong. They were obviously trashed by that very offense all year long and may have a distorted POV. LPT fans also know firsthand how successful Petrino was here a decade ago and how they were dominated by the offense he ran at that time. Yet, they look somewhat enviously at the offense they saw on Saturday...
 
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I remember when the Kansas City Chiefs ran a stacked I with a moving pocket back in the early 70s. That was supposed to be the "offense if the seventies". It was outmoded by 1974. Then along came the wishbone. The point is, it's all about execution. You could run the single wing and be successful, if you run it well. What I love about college football as opposed to the NFL is the diversity of schemes and approaches, which creates interesting matchups. LPT needs to worry about running their offense well instead of following the crowd. So do we.
 
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you see what happened to Rich Rod when he went to Mich and tried to implement this scheme, and it's hard to say the read option is a superior approach...UK fans are, predictably, looking for answers in all the wrong places.

I think we, as fans, sometimes fall prey to the idea of one style of O is preferred over the other; when good coaches ultimately adjust to the talent they have. It was quite impressive, the breadth of play calling we witnessed this year (depending on what talent was on the field). It's hard enough to run one set effectively (pro set, read option, whatever), much harder to have a playbook twice as thick and understand how and when to implement it.

So, my thinking is; the coaches are responsible for getting the right scheme for the players they have...maybe UK fans should accept that they have a crappy coach who doesn't understand his players.

While we, in a rebuilding year talent wise, are looking forward to getting our 8th win of the season.
 
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beantowncard said:
I remember when the Kansas City Chiefs ran a stacked I with a moving pocket back in the early 70s. That was supposed to be the "offense if the seventies". It was outmoded by 1974. Then along came the wishbone. The point is, it's all about execution. You could run the single wing and be successful, if you run it well. What I love about college football as opposed to the NFL is the diversity of schemes and approaches, which creates interesting matchups. LPT needs to worry about running their offense well instead of following the crowd. So do we.
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What about lpts famous "wing T"?
 
The most difficult offense to prepare for is one that can run the same play out of multiple formations and personnel groups, one where the offense does not show much tendency favoring run or pass based on formation, and one where the QB has the option and skills to check out of a play based on defensive front.
 
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The "read-option" when it is used as the foundation that you build your offense on is NOT hard to scheme for defensively.

UK's lack of preparation for that aspect of our offense was obvious. If you go back and look at their LB / DL alignment and technique, they either didn't care or they were not prepared.

The "read-option"/ "zone read", is effective when: defenses are not prepared, one dimensional, or undisciplined. This offense is not effective, when defenses mask their intentions by alignment. The QB must be able to determine in a hurry, by alignment (pre-snap) if the play is going to be effective.

The read-option works MUCH better when it is a "concept" within a multiple offense. Which includes going under center, 2 back sets, etc.

Look at last year's game vs UK. UK was prepared for the shotgun / option scheme. When Bolin came in, they got lit up. The reverse happened this year.
 
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zipp said:
Some of our fans have questioned the logic of Petrino trying to adapt his offense. Specifically, Petrino adding a dual threat QB to his traditional offense.

Since Saturday's LPT debacle and after viewing mobile QBs run all over them this year, LPT fans have asked why they don't add a dual threat QB to their offense. I'm now listening to a podcast of a Lexington sports talk show from Tuesday nite where the host referred to the "offense of the future", what Petrino is trying to do and the offense that other successful schools are running.

Now, I'm the last guy to embrace what any LPT fan thinks about football, and these people may be dead wrong. They were obviously trashed by that very offense all year long and may have a distorted POV. LPT fans also know firsthand how successful Petrino was here a decade ago and how they were dominated by the offense he ran at that time. Yet, they look somewhat enviously at the offense they saw on Saturday...
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This type of thinking reminds me of one of my baseball managers. The pitching staff would meet to go over the upcoming opponent and how we were go to pitch certain hitters. If there was ever any question about an approach, the manager would invariably say, "let's just jam him". After one meeting I asked our pitching coach (who had played against him growing up) what kind of player / hitter the manager was. His response?

"He was pretty good, but we used to jam the sh!t out of him"...
 
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WildcatDJ said:
The product on the field the last two years has shown that the two teams are fairly equal.

We are desperate...are you guys happy with where you're at?
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Buried in too many TOs and easy TDs has been a total domination of your team statistically. You're only hanging in these games because of U of L miscues, and those things usually even out.

And LPT fans would be ecstatic with a .500 record, while many U of L fans and coaches are unhappy at 7-5 against a more difficult schedule.

None of that sounds "fairly equal"...
 
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zipp said:
Buried in too many TOs and easy TDs has been a total domination of your team statistically. You're only hanging in these games because of U of L miscues, and those things usually even out.

And LPT fans would be ecstatic with a .500 record, while many U of L fans and coaches are unhappy at 7-5 against a more difficult schedule.

None of that sounds "fairly equal"...
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Lpt hasnt gone .500 in S-eZ in years
 
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WildcatDJ said:
The product on the field the last two years has shown that the two teams are fairly equal.

We are desperate...are you guys happy with where you're at?
Click to expand...

Are you REALLY that STUPID!?!?!?

The ONLY thing that made Can-Suck-Me CLOSE to equal with Louisville on the field is the 5 Turnovers and 27 points that Louisville SPOTTED you in 2014...And the 3 Turnovers and 24 points Louisville SPOTTED you in 2015...That's a total of 8 Turnovers and 51 Points Louisville HAD to OVERCOME to win...AND WE DID...When's the last time you can say Can-Suck-Me ACCOMPLISHED that!?!?!?

We SPOTTED your PATHETIC DUMB@$$@$ an average of 25.5 points both years in the first half and STILL KICKED your @$$@$ ALL OVER THE FIELD...Game Stats PROVE that!!!

GO AWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:cool:
 
ul only won because our two best backs got hurt and we were still tied in the fourth quarter. Just like last year ul didn't win it, we gave it to you.
 
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homerblue said:
...we were still tied in the fourth quarter. Just like last year ul didn't win it, we gave it to you.
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It's true we were briefly tied...as we were blowing by LPT 38-3 to finish the game...

LPT Football: Moral victories wanted...
 
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Streakpass said:
The "read-option" when it is used as the foundation that you build your offense on is NOT hard to scheme for defensively
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I don't agree that it cannot work as the foundation,and that it's easy to defend.The qb in this offense is the key.How he reads the defense and the decisions he makes after that read ,are what makes it hard.He is basically adjusting ad hoc on every play to what the defense does.

I can tell you that our grade school football team ran the triple option 40 years ago.Everybody and their uncle knew what was coming,prepared for it(it's all we ran &every play) but couldn't stop it because of our qb's decisions.Oh yeah,he was named Brohm.
 
WildcatDJ said:
The product on the field the last two years has shown that the two teams are fairly equal.

We are desperate...are you guys happy with where you're at?
Click to expand...

The DJ is hitting the sauce.

UofL's next game is a bowl. UK's next game is not.

The last two season's UofL ended UK's.

We're happy to be in the ACC. We're happy we got one for the thumb against the laughingstock team next door. 5 in a row, there's no telling when that streak will get snapped. One thing UK football executes better than any program in the nation - how to keep a losing streak going.
 
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earsky said:
I don't agree that it cannot work as the foundation,and that it's easy to defend.The qb in this offense is the key.How he reads the defense and the decisions he makes after that read ,are what makes it hard.He is basically adjusting ad hoc on every play to what the defense does.

I can tell you that our grade school football team ran the triple option 40 years ago.Everybody and their uncle knew what was coming,prepared for it(it's all we ran &every play) but couldn't stop it because of our qb's decisions.Oh yeah,he was named Brohm.
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If by foundation you mean, run a majority of the time, I don't think that the read option can be the foundation of any really successful offense. In this day and age, with the speed that is on the defensive side of the ball - including the DL - if they play assignment football (I'm looking at you mildcats - lol) the play isn't that hard to defend. Case in point this year - when BP announced that LJ was going to be the starter - Houston, FSU, BC and even WF - were able to scheme for it and control it for the most part.

If you're going to play a QB like LJ, the RO certainly has a place but, if the offense is truly going to be good - the QB has to be able to go under center also and be able to throw the ball downfield. Also, the triple option is way harder to defend than the RO and even then, if your QB can't throw the ball downfield or, doesn't have any wideouts that can spread / stretch the field, your offense is one dimensional and won't be that good.

Look no further than GaTech this year for an example of that.
 
I dont want to be welcome here. Im here to set the record straight, your football team got lucky and our most important offensive weapons got injured and forced our freshman qb, as talented as he is to throw the ball behind an oline that is still decimated from joker. We still have to rid ourselves of his horrible players that tried to sabotage the team this year. All these things combined and UK and ul are about even this year and last. I always get a big laugh out of the lower football IQ fans who believe just because ul happens to have more points after four quarters, that somehow means they have a better team than UK, when nothing could be further from the truth.
 
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homerblue said:
I always get a big laugh out of the lower football IQ fans who believe just because ul happens to have more points after four quarters, that somehow means they have a better team than UK, when nothing could be further from the truth.
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Which is why Kentucky is the NCAA all time leader in moral (not scoreboard) victories. Not that I think you are a yut fan HB. Keep up the good work...
 
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The last last 8 quarters of football have been split even at 4 each because we won the 1st and 4th qtr last year and the 1st and 2nd qtr this year,fyi. If anything, I will give you we should be 1-1.
Last years game will be forever known as miracle win on a fluke drop by a UK player and this years game will be remembered by history as one UK lost in the 4th quarter after losing two of its most important weapons very early in the game. You are just very fortunate they went down or the beatong Stoops was handing to ul would have continued for the next 3 qtrs and we would have dropped 80 on the birds.
 
homerblue said:
The last last 8 quarters of football have been split even at 4 each because we won the 1st and 4th qtr last year and the 1st and 2nd qtr this year,fyi. If anything, I will give you we should be 1-1. Last years game will be forever known as miracle win on a fluke drop by a UK player and this years game will be remembered by history as one UK lost in the 4th quarter after losing two of its most important weapons very early in the game. You are just very fortunate they went down or the beatong Stoops was handing to ul would have continued for the next 3 qtrs and we would have dropped 80 on the birds.
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"The birds" have dominated the last two years. 50% more first downs, total yards, rushing yards, and passing yards. All phases of the game except TOs, where U of L is -3 for both games. That's the only thing that has kept these games competitive.

But relying on TOs is fool's gold. You'll never achieve real success with nothing else working for you. Next year makes six in a row.

LPT Football: What's real success?...
 
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homerblue said:
The last last 8 quarters of football have been split even at 4 each because we won the 1st and 4th qtr last year and the 1st and 2nd qtr this year,fyi. If anything, I will give you we should be 1-1.
Last years game will be forever known as miracle win on a fluke drop by a UK player and this years game will be remembered by history as one UK lost in the 4th quarter after losing two of its most important weapons very early in the game. You are just very fortunate they went down or the beatong Stoops was handing to ul would have continued for the next 3 qtrs and we would have dropped 80 on the birds.
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Anybody know what Cardinal fan homerblue could be? Birdteeth is that you?
Anyhow, please keep the laughs coming. I enjoy reading them.
 
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homerblue said:
The last last 8 quarters of football have been split even at 4 each because we won the 1st and 4th qtr last year and the 1st and 2nd qtr this year,fyi. If anything, I will give you we should be 1-1.
Last years game will be forever known as miracle win on a fluke drop by a UK player and this years game will be remembered by history as one UK lost in the 4th quarter after losing two of its most important weapons very early in the game. You are just very fortunate they went down or the beatong Stoops was handing to ul would have continued for the next 3 qtrs and we would have dropped 80 on the birds.
Click to expand...

Congratulations on your moral victory, which is all your dog of a program can hope to accomplish. Keep telling yourself you're winning by losing, I'll take winning by winning, thanks.
 
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Homer's next post - time me on this - will run along these lines.......

"For the second year in a row UK lost in spite of playing the best game of the two teams. The experiment with Barker shows incredible promise as his one completion out of 14 in the second half was a picturesque beauty of a throw and catch. As our nutrition program continues to produce athletes with 24 MPH speed and the twitch factor of The Terminator, all Lousyville fans know UK is coming and it won't be pretty."

"Next season, The Nation Will Awake to the 9 headed monster which is Wildcat football."
 
BPGhost said:
Houston, FSU, BC and even WF - were able to scheme for it and control it for the most part.
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This is where I disagree...slightly.Imo,LJ did not do a very good job "reading" in those games,as well as the o-line not getting their assigned blocks.True,those defenses were much stouter than Kentucky's,butJackson and the o-line had not found their stride in that offense yet.Again,that offense is predicated on the qb taking what's there.In other words,defensive adjustments are met by qb adjustments.When LJ sticks that ball in Radcliff's gut,will he pull it out,hand it off,fake it and chuck it down the field?

I agree though,that he will have to take snaps from under center from time to time.Look,I was as much against it as anybody early,but because of the execution of it as much as anything.I now believe this season will be looked back on as a transitional season,changing from that traditional power spread to what we saw last Saturday.Jmo.
 
earsky said:
This is where I disagree...slightly.Imo,LJ did not do a very good job "reading" in those games,as well as the o-line not getting their assigned blocks.True,those defenses were much stouter than Kentucky's,butJackson and the o-line had not found their stride in that offense yet.Again,that offense is predicated on the qb taking what's there.In other words,defensive adjustments are met by qb adjustments.When LJ sticks that ball in Radcliff's gut,will he pull it out,hand it off,fake it and chuck it down the field?

I agree though,that he will have to take snaps from under center from time to time.Look,I was as much against it as anybody early,but because of the execution of it as much as anything.I now believe this season will be looked back on as a transitional season,changing from that traditional power spread to what we saw last Saturday.Jmo.
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I think the two situations go hand in hand - the more the defense schemes for it and plays assignment football, the more difficult the reads become.

Though I hope not, you may be right about the offense though I think with Petrino, it's always about maximizing the skill set of whatever QB he has. Pass is different than Jackson and I would imagine the play calling would be different with him as well.
 
For those worried about the future direction of the U of L offense, I think Petrino would love nothing better than a QB playing like Deshaun Watson...
 
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zipp said:
For those worried about the future direction of the U of L offense, I think Petrino would love nothing better than a QB playing like Deshaun Watson...
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That is definitely the type of skill set that Jawon Pass has - hopefully would become as polished as Watson. Still believe the same for LJ - hope he works really hard on his accuracy and progressions as he could be that guy as well.
 
beantowncard said:
I remember when the Kansas City Chiefs ran a stacked I with a moving pocket back in the early 70s. That was supposed to be the "offense if the seventies". It was outmoded by 1974. Then along came the wishbone. The point is, it's all about execution. You could run the single wing and be successful, if you run it well. What I love about college football as opposed to the NFL is the diversity of schemes and approaches, which creates interesting matchups. LPT needs to worry about running their offense well instead of following the crowd. So do we.
Click to expand...
You stole my thought Beantown. Its all about execution. There are a lot of offensive schemes that will work well with the proper execution. Having said that, I have always liked having a mobile QB regardless of the scheme. Because it allows you to pickup 1st downs/Touchdowns on improvised plays. And if the QB is a really dangerous runner it can actually dictate how the defense has to defend. The trick is the QB has to know when to run and when to be patient and let a play develop in the passing game. LeFores was a master at that.
 
rockycard said:
The head to head the last two years is fairly equal? o_O

Average yards per game
Louisville 480.5
Kentucky 309
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Only reason games were not blowouts were UofL mistakes. Sure it is part of the game. Any program hanging their hat on being competitive based on the opponents mistakes is more than likely going to be a losing program.

We've dominated them for years now.

They didn't score a point after halftime this year.

Only a UK fan would say an 0-2 record is fairly equal.
 
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I dont understand why ul fans cant admit they are crappy this year just like UK was and the denial and fear of the trajectories of the two programs by ul fans is amazing.
Simple math shows a clear pattern emerging for both, were we improve 3 wins every 2 years and ul regresses 2 wins EVERY YEAR! Using this simple formula proves that UK will have back to back 8 win seasons in 16 and 17 followed by TWO 11 win and probable playoff seasons following. According to scientific models ul will win only 5 next year and 3 the year after!
Were we closer on the field than BBN would want this year? yes, but us higher IQ football fans knew that we would only win 5 this year so we are 100% on schedule as Stoops rebuilds from the utter and complete destruction of Joker. That is why I can sit back and laugh as you get beat up by our SEC brothers from college station, knowing that this will be the last bowl game in your history and the all the great success that UK football is on the verge of, starting next year.
 
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