Louisville BOT sues Ramsey and Foundation Administrators

[wilkie01]

Wow! This is getting deep!

UofL, Foundation file suit against Ramsey, former administrators
The University of Louisville and the University of Louisville Foundation filed suit today against former President James Ramsey and other former Foundation officials alleging breach of fiduciary duty, fraudulent appropriations and improper diversion of funds for personal gain.

The suit filed in Jefferson Circuit Court claims that during the period from 2008 to 2016, Ramsey and others conspired to divert millions of dollars from the Foundation’s endowment into speculative and unauthorized ventures, putting the Foundation at risk. The suit further charges that these individuals depleted the endowment through complicated – and often unauthorized – transactions designed to avoid scrutiny and circumvent the Foundation’s approved rules and annual budget.

The suit also claims that Ramsey and his chief of staff, Kathleen McDaniel Smith, colluded to pay excessive compensation to themselves and others. It further states that they intentionally concealed the improper expenditures and compensation, and that their actions caused the Foundation to lose millions of dollars.

Also named in the suit are former finance officers Michael Curtin and Jason Tomlinson; former Foundation Chair Burt Deutsch; and law firm Stites & Harbison, which served as the Foundation’s legal counsel.

More information, including the full complaint, are available at UofLNews.com.

 

[Knucklehank1]

This is one side of the story so we will see what happens. I know there were some posters that used the absence of a suit as proof that there wasn’t a lack of oversight or fiduciary responsibility. I guess we will find out in court now.

 

[MikeMcCammon]

Not sure if I have ever seen such a lack of accountability with regard to so much money as during Ramsey's tenure at U of L. Multiple federal criminal convictions involving embezzlements of millions of dollars within the university and now Ramsey and his cronies facing a civil fraud lawsuit for their own imprudence if not worse. Parents work themselves to death to pay for and students take on massive debt to attend college yet these pirates, even though making millions of dollars in salary, have to steal even more. Sad.

 

[zipp]

It's strange how the State audit didn't uncover any of that stuff, mostly just transparency issues.

It's also strange how the IRS has yet to come forward and levy excise taxes on "excess compensation" earned by the Foundation directors.

Someone must need some money, and they must need it big time...

 

[wilkie01]

Not sure if I have ever seen such a lack of accountability with regard to so much money as during Ramsey's tenure at U of L. Multiple federal criminal convictions involving embezzlements of millions of dollars within the university and now Ramsey and his cronies facing a civil fraud lawsuit for their own imprudence if not worse. Parents work themselves to death to pay for and students take on massive debt to attend college yet these pirates, even though making millions of dollars in salary, have to steal even more. Sad.

And most of this money was in restricted funds, that could only be used for their designated purposes. This reeks of criminal activities. Appears Ramsey allowed the foxes into the hen house. They paid Jurich a million plus bonus from these restricted funds! Zipp this is a damn NoNo!

 

[Knucklehank1]

It's strange how the State audit didn't uncover any of that stuff, mostly just transparency issues.

It's also strange how the IRS has yet to come forward and levy excise taxes on "excess compensation" earned by the Foundation directors.

Someone must need some money, and they must need it big time...

I thought you dismissed the state audit? Now you brush aside this lawsuit. And you’ve moved the goalposts to the IRS.

 

[zipp]

I thought you dismissed the state audit? Now you brush aside this lawsuit. And you’ve moved the goalposts to the IRS.

You're mistaken (again). I've cited that audit's ACTUAL findings in many threads, not the headline that usually precedes it. If you'd like, we can go there (again).

And explain how the IRS is "moving the goalposts"? I've often cited that fact as well.

Maybe you need to follow along better, or perhaps buy a premium subscription where a lot of this stuff gets discussed without your help...

 

[zipp]

And most of this money was in restricted funds, that could only be used for their designated purposes. This reeks of criminal activities. Appears Ramsey allowed the foxes into the hen house. They paid Jurich a million plus bonus from these restricted funds! Zipp this is a damn NoNo!

Better make sure you have your facts straight on this "criminal" and "restricted" stuff. Just sayin'...

 

[zipp]

This is one side of the story so we will see what happens. I know there were some posters that used the absence of a suit as proof that there wasn’t a lack of oversight or fiduciary responsibility. I guess we will find out in court now.

You can also cite the lack of criminal prosecution and IRS inquiry as further proof.

I'm glad to see this. Just portrays these guys in the proper light...

 

[Knucklehank1]

You're mistaken (again). I've cited that audit's ACTUAL findings in many threads, not the headline that usually precedes it. If you'd like, we can go there (again).

And explain how the IRS is "moving the goalposts"? I've often cited that fact as well.

Maybe you need to follow along better, or perhaps buy a premium subscription where a lot of this stuff gets discussed without your help...

I realize you lead this board in deflections but come on. You’ve routinely tried to minimize the findings of the audit and used the absence of a lawsuit as a major component of your argument.

 

[Knucklehank1]

Surely you know that prosecutors rarely seek charges when there is white collar lack of oversight issues. I’m not sure how the IRS would get involved assuming everything was taxed appropriately. Maybe a tax accountant on here can shed some light.

 

[zipp]

I realize you lead this board in deflections but come on. You’ve routinely tried to minimize the findings of the audit and used the absence of a lawsuit as a major component of your argument.

"Deflections" = stuff that clown show apologists don't wanna address

Of the three--IRS, criminal indictment, civil suit--the last is the least compelling because it's just one side telling a story. That's what we have today. And it's the side with little credibility.

Tell me that the "feds" are coming after Ramsey, and you may have something with more substance. At the moment, you have something just sl. better than birdcage liner. And I love how it makes your clown show look...

 

[zipp]

Surely you know that prosecutors rarely seek charges when there is white collar lack of oversight issues. I’m not sure how the IRS would get involved assuming everything was taxed appropriately. Maybe a tax accountant on here can shed some light.

You really don't know WTH you're talking about. Even more so in these areas...

 

[wilkie01]

"Deflections" = stuff that clown show apologists don't wanna address

Of the three--IRS, criminal indictment, civil suit--the last is the least compelling because it's just one side telling a story. That's what we have today. And it's the side with little credibility.

Tell me that the "feds" are coming after Ramsey, and you may have something with more substance. At the moment, you have something just sl. better than birdcage liner. And I love how it makes your clown show look...

Cash flow and how the money was classified and spent will tell it all.

 

[chevelle99]

Prosecutors also know having a defendant with empty pockets after a civil suit makes their job easier.

 

[Knucklehank1]

You really don't know WTH you're talking about. Even more so in these areas...

Looks like someone is a little upset that their argument is getting diminished. It’s ok, it is just a message board.

 

[Knucklehank1]

"Deflections" = stuff that clown show apologists don't wanna address

Of the three--IRS, criminal indictment, civil suit--the last is the least compelling because it's just one side telling a story. That's what we have today. And it's the side with little credibility.

Tell me that the "feds" are coming after Ramsey, and you may have something with more substance. At the moment, you have something just sl. better than birdcage liner. And I love how it makes your clown show look...

You used the absence of lawsuit as a strong defense of your position. Now that has eroded you move on to the next part of your hat dance. Well done...Solid deflection!

 

[FatCatwithBlueHat]

It's strange how the State audit didn't uncover any of that stuff, mostly just transparency issues.

It's also strange how the IRS has yet to come forward and levy excise taxes on "excess compensation" earned by the Foundation directors.

Someone must need some money, and they must need it big time...

What does this mean? The IRS can just go and levy taxes that didn't originate in the House and get approved in the Senate?

 

[MikeMcCammon]

It's strange how the State audit didn't uncover any of that stuff, mostly just transparency issues.

It's also strange how the IRS has yet to come forward and levy excise taxes on "excess compensation" earned by the Foundation directors.

Someone must need some money, and they must need it big time...

Excess compensation cases are relatively uncommon because they are so subjective. Could still happen though but it is hardly a litmus test for civil fraud or inappropriate compensation.

 

[zipp]

Looks like someone is a little upset that their argument is getting diminished. It’s ok, it is just a message board.

LOL... You actually think Beshear wouldn't indict an ex-Uof L Prez for defrauding state taxpayers if he has hard evidence?

You're more clueless than I thought...

 

[IrishPokerDog]

It's strange how the State audit didn't uncover any of that stuff, mostly just transparency issues.

It's also strange how the IRS has yet to come forward and levy excise taxes on "excess compensation" earned by the Foundation directors.

Someone must need some money, and they must need it big time...

You somewhat dismiss the financial discoveries as being “strange” that it wasn’t uncovered by the State Audit, when if you read the first page of the State Audit, it clearly stated it wasn’t an audit covering the financial statements as it was primarily performed to review the problems of governance and transparency

 

[zipp]

What does this mean? The IRS can just go and levy taxes that didn't originate in the House and get approved in the Senate?

How stupid are some of you guys and the people who "like" your posts? You can only google, maybe five pages of this stuff.

LINK

 

[zipp]

Excess compensation cases are relatively uncommon because they are so subjective. Could still happen though but it is hardly a litmus test for civil fraud or inappropriate compensation.

Again, too many clown show apologists are way outta their league debating this stuff. Stick to sports...

 

[Knucklehank1]

LOL... You actually think Beshear wouldn't indict an ex-Uof L Prez for defrauding state taxpayers if he has hard evidence?

You're more clueless than I thought...

Actually Beshear worked for Stites and Harbison which is also getting sued, so I doubt he will be touching this one. And furthermore I never said that there would or wouldn’t be charges filed, just that a case like this would be a challenge.

 

[Knucklehank1]

The tax bill reforms you linked are as of 2018.

 

[Knucklehank1]

Again, too many clown show apologists are way outta their league debating this stuff. Stick to sports...

Straight out of the Zipp playbook. He gets bogged down and then just comes with the digs. Deflect and then try a few rabbit punches - interesting strategy.

 

[zipp]

You somewhat dismiss the financial discoveries as being “strange” that it wasn’t uncovered by the State Audit, when if you read the first page of the State Audit, it clearly stated it wasn’t an audit covering the financial statements as it was primarily performed to review the problems of governance and transparency

Semantics is a loser's debate. Everyone is calling it an audit, and it was a 135-page report. You call it whatever you want.

And if you have something better, link it...

 

[zipp]

The tax bill reforms you linked are as of 2018.

You want more links that you don't understand?...

 

[Knucklehank1]

You want more links that you don't understand?...

Sure. Just make sure they are relevant to the dates in question.

 

[wilkie01]

Well, Zipp, I was an analysis that specialized in not-for-profit entities, including Umiversities and their foundations.. But, Hey, what do I know?

 

[zipp]

Sure. Just make sure they are relevant to the dates in question.

LOL...like you're a judge of "relevancy".

LINK 1

LINK 2

LINK 3

 

[zipp]

Well, Zipp, I was an analysis that specialized in not-for-profit entities, including Umiversities and their foundations.. But, Hey, what do I know?

I never alleged what you know or don't. I asked what would be stopping a prosecutor in Kentucky from indicting Ramsey over defrauding Kentucky taxpayers? And I don't recall getting an answer...

 

[zipp]

Actually Beshear worked for Stites and Harbison which is also getting sued, so I doubt he will be touching this one. And furthermore I never said that there would or wouldn’t be charges filed, just that a case like this would be a challenge.

Based on your studied legal opinion...LOL.

 

[Knucklehank1]

Based on your studied legal opinion...LOL.

I wouldn’t expect someone who wasn’t bothered by lack of transparency and lack of oversight from the prior regime be bothered by something like a glaring conflict of interest. At least you are consistent in your blind eye.

 

[zipp]

I wouldn’t expect someone who wasn’t bothered by lack of transparency and lack of oversight from the prior regime be bothered by something like a glaring conflict of interest. At least you are consistent in your blind eye.

You don't understand what you're trying to discuss so you wouldn't understand this... A civil suit needs to have quantifiable financial damages. The "lack of transparency/oversight" and "conflict of interest" must lead to that or it's nothing. IOW you have to prove more, that Ramsey or someone in a quid pro quo relationship gained tangibly.

A civil suit will fail otherwise. Again, don't try to understand that...

 

[wilkie01]

I never alleged what you know or don't. I asked what would be stopping a prosecutor in Kentucky from indicting Ramsey over defrauding Kentucky taxpayers? And I don't recall getting an answer...

Sorry. Well if they did use State designated funds or grants, yes. And it gets worst, if they dipped into Federal grant money.

 

[Knucklehank1]

You don't understand what you're trying to discuss so you wouldn't understand this... A civil suit needs to have quantifiable financial damages. The "lack of transparency/oversight" and "conflict of interest" must lead to that or it's nothing. IOW you have to prove more, that Ramsey or someone in a quid pro quo relationship gained tangibly.

A civil suit will fail otherwise. Again, don't try to understand that...

Ramsey, et al must feel pretty comfortable having your strong legal backing!

 

[IrishPokerDog]

Semantics is a loser's debate. Everyone is calling it an audit, and it was a 135-page report. You call it whatever you want.

And if you have something better, link it...

You are correct.... so why are you engaging in semantics yourself? Audits are all reports, some are financial, some are process, some are governance - but all are an examination of a series of elements. Regardless of the semantics, there are the following documents out there:

- a State Audit of process, governance and oversight
- a forensic audit of finances
- a civil action against multiple parties regarding purported collusion and malfeasance

It doesn’t really matter whether the IRS thinks anything about this, as perhaps the excess compensation was taxed....but there’s more than enough smoke (ie fact) here for reasonable people to discern potential chicanery

 

[zipp]

You are correct.... so why are you engaging in semantics yourself? Audits are all reports, some are financial, some are process, some are governance - but all are an examination of a series of elements. Regardless of the semantics, there are the following documents out there:

- a State Audit of process, governance and oversight
- a forensic audit of finances
- a civil action against multiple parties regarding purported collusion and malfeasance

It doesn’t really matter whether the IRS thinks anything about this, as perhaps the excess compensation was taxed....but there’s more than enough smoke (ie fact) here for reasonable people to discern potential chicanery

You tried to dismiss the findings because you don't think it rose to the level of an audit. I don't give an ish what you wanna call it ("semantics").

Are you alleging that the IRS has already intervened? You got some evidence for that??

Bottom line, there's no evidence of financial gain other than innuendo about Foundation income being excessive. When any of you guys have evidence of THAT as being excessive, please link it.

And remember, the platform or opportunity for malfeasance isn't evidence of malfeasance...

 

[zipp]

Ramsey, et al must feel pretty comfortable having your strong legal backing!

Fortunately, what I stated doesn't require a "strong legal" background. You only need half a brain...