ADVERTISEMENT

For the "fire Klenakis" crowd...

zipp

Elite Member
Jun 26, 2001
48,602
11,764
26
I'm warming up a little to the sentiment I first heard voiced by Hank (KHX) more than a year ago, although actual firing is a big step. There's no way you can explain positional issues almost three years into Petrino's tenure against the backdrop of other positions where there are no such issues. Unless some factor like the O-line being the most difficult to coach and develop, and I'll have to be convinced of that on the flipside.

BUT there are some issues I can't get past in order to lay all of this at Klenakis' feet. And if you guys want my buy-in--and you may not care--here's the stuff I'm thinking about that runs counter to your POV...

Not just the O-line coach. You know that Coach K is not just a position coach; he's also the co-coordinator, I believe in charge of the "run game". And if you wanna argue he's in a position of total or primary responsibility, that cuts both ways. In addition to our O-line stats/problems, this year's rushing offense is also ranked 12th nationally at 255 yards/game and 4th at 6.3 yards/carry. Is most of that due to Lamar Jackson?...Probably. But the same O-linemen are out there the entire game whether the ball's in Lamar's hands or not. And irrespective of last nite, I think the average coach would tell you our "run game" is something to be respected.

BTW, our passing offense is 19th nationally at 304 ypg.

If it's offense, it's about Petrino. I recall the last two years when were struggling offensively, the coaching issue alleged by many was Garrett McGee. He was even reportedly picking the QB and calling the plays, all of which we know now in hindsight was BS. The issue was finding a great QB, and all of those decisions are managed by Petrino.

If you've watched a practice, Petrino spends 80% of his time with the offense. And half of that time the O-linemen are in front of him. He knows and critiques EVERYTHING on offense, and if a position coach ain't getting the job done--like Lamar Thomas--he's gone before we even know there's an issue. I can't believe that Klenakis ain't executing on exactly what Petrino wants him to do with the O-line and its coaching. So much so that Petrino even promoted him last year. If it's an offense issue and it persists, firing a position coach IMO is a scapegoat.

Suddenly a huge problem with Houston. We've had our O-line issues all year. But even against Clemson, there were answers. That tells me last nite was more about Houston than it was about our O-line, or maybe other factors as well that had nothing to do with a position coach.

I'm 100% convinced that no one on the coaching staff wants to win more than Petrino, and that he has broad latitude to change things as needed to win games and championships. It's amusing to talk about this stuff, or it should just be amusement. When you start taking your position too seriously that a person needs to be fired or that simply you have the solution to a problem, best to check off on all the boxes...like those above.
 
  • Like
Reactions: watchem
I will never understand any fan that can sunshine pump after last nights debacle. We are in year 3 with klenakis and we cant even field guys that can stand up, let alone block. I have been taking heat for pointing it out all season.

I dont want him fired, I want him fired immediately.

the level of incompetence displayed last night is not becoming of a team that desires to ever play in a playoff.
 
No one's pumping sunshine. I'm saying that you don't recognize cause and effect. You're just shooting from the hip.

If you want to fire the entire coaching staff and get rid of all the players, you'll take care of the problem. Convince me that you can pin down the problem better than that...
 
No one's pumping sunshine. I'm saying that you don't recognize cause and effect. You're just shooting from the hip.

If you want to fire the entire coaching staff and get rid of all the players, you'll take care of the problem. Convince me that you can pin down the problem better than that...
no where did I say all the player, there are a few who should not be on this level. There is one coach in particular that needs his head on a stick and that is the oline coach. High school teams are better prepared than we were.
 
  • Like
Reactions: wilkie01
I'm warming up a little to the sentiment I first heard voiced by Hank (KHX) more than a year ago, although actual firing is a big step. There's no way you can explain positional issues almost three years into Petrino's tenure against the backdrop of other positions where there are no such issues. Unless some factor like the O-line being the most difficult to coach and develop, and I'll have to be convinced of that on the flipside.

BUT there are some issues I can't get past in order to lay all of this at Klenakis' feet. And if you guys want my buy-in--and you may not care--here's the stuff I'm thinking about that runs counter to your POV...

Not just the O-line coach. You know that Coach K is not just a position coach; he's also the co-coordinator, I believe in charge of the "run game". And if you wanna argue he's in a position of total or primary responsibility, that cuts both ways. In addition to our O-line stats/problems, this year's rushing offense is also ranked 12th nationally at 255 yards/game and 4th at 6.3 yards/carry. Is most of that due to Lamar Jackson?...Probably. But the same O-linemen are out there the entire game whether the ball's in Lamar's hands or not. And irrespective of last nite, I think the average coach would tell you our "run game" is something to be respected.

BTW, our passing offense is 19th nationally at 304 ypg.

If it's offense, it's about Petrino. I recall the last two years when were struggling offensively, the coaching issue alleged by many was Garrett McGee. He was even reportedly picking the QB and calling the plays, all of which we know now in hindsight was BS. The issue was finding a great QB, and all of those decisions are managed by Petrino.

If you've watched a practice, Petrino spends 80% of his time with the offense. And half of that time the O-linemen are in front of him. He knows and critiques EVERYTHING on offense, and if a position coach ain't getting the job done--like Lamar Thomas--he's gone before we even know there's an issue. I can't believe that Klenakis ain't executing on exactly what Petrino wants him to do with the O-line and its coaching. So much so that Petrino even promoted him last year. If it's an offense issue and it persists, firing a position coach IMO is a scapegoat.

Suddenly a huge problem with Houston. We've had our O-line issues all year. But even against Clemson, there were answers. That tells me last nite was more about Houston than it was about our O-line, or maybe other factors as well that had nothing to do with a position coach.

I'm 100% convinced that no one on the coaching staff wants to win more than Petrino, and that he has broad latitude to change things as needed to win games and championships. It's amusing to talk about this stuff, or it should just be amusement. When you start taking your position too seriously that a person needs to be fired or that simply you have the solution to a problem, best to check off on all the boxes...like those above.

Time to call Mike Cassity and sèek and ask if his time was waisted and if he would like to return.
 
Good points but what bothered me about last night, happened 3 weeks ago at Virginia albeit to a lesser degree because of the talent differential between UVA and Houston. Bronco Mendenhall's defense gave our Offensive Line fits all game long with blitzers moving into gaps at the last second, stunts, overloads, corner blitzes you name it and yet we never adjusted in game to anything after seeing it again (on steroids) last night.

Wake Forest followed the script 2 weeks later and was effective for 3 quarters. Good defensive coaches will always find a way to take away what you do best if you give them time. We just thought as fans that we had to many ways too beat any defense. That would be true if our Offensive line play was up to par but it hasn't been. Again

We were ridiculously unfocused last night and flat. That's never going to get it done at this level of football. That's on the coaches because 19-22 year olds are not always going to be mature enough to prepare.

It happens, just look at when a mediocre SMU team took it to Houston and suddenly the luster had come off Tom Herman. Once again we were close. I just wish we could finally break through.

A good stomping of UK, a Lamar Heisman and a Bowl win would sure ease the pain.
 
I will never understand any fan that can sunshine pump after last nights debacle. We are in year 3 with klenakis and we cant even field guys that can stand up, let alone block. I have been taking heat for pointing it out all season.

I dont want him fired, I want him fired immediately.

the level of incompetence displayed last night is not becoming of a team that desires to ever play in a playoff.

3 years in and were still having trouble with line. Not being abĺe to communicate into the 11th game of the season in front of 40,000 fans. What was that worked at Syracuse and did not last night??
 
3 years in and were still having trouble with line. Not being abĺe to communicate into the 11th game of the season in front of 40,000 fans. What was that worked at Syracuse and did not last night??
either A, we were forced to lose by the mob, or B our coaches simply refused to prepare the team or try to adjust.

My answer is B
 
Here are a few thoughts in this:

- Petrino historically has utilized a power running game. To do that you typically have big, strong o linemen. However his offense has morphed into a more read option based attack because we have a once in a generation QB to run that style. Typically the o line for that offense would not be quite as big but more nimble. So I think there is some disconnect between personnel and scheme

- Lamar can improve in the off season on his understanding of defenses and his communication. Some of the confusion of the o line can be mitigated by the QB. Petrino doesn't have the confidence in Lamar to make adjustments at the line yet. if Lamar can approach Teddy levels of defense recognition, then watch out. Until then, we are susceptible to the defense changing looks and confusing our offense
 
Here are a few thoughts in this:

- Petrino historically has utilized a power running game. To do that you typically have big, strong o linemen. However his offense has morphed into a more read option based attack because we have a once in a generation QB to run that style. Typically the o line for that offense would not be quite as big but more nimble. So I think there is some disconnect between personnel and scheme

- Lamar can improve in the off season on his understanding of defenses and his communication. Some of the confusion of the o line can be mitigated by the QB. Petrino doesn't have the confidence in Lamar to make adjustments at the line yet. if Lamar can approach Teddy levels of defense recognition, then watch out. Until then, we are susceptible to the defense changing looks and confusing our offense
Those are reasonable POVs based on how little I know about offensive line development. And it's certainly possible that coaching (or lack thereof) is in part responsible.

To say it's all coaching and it's all Klenakis is where I would part company without compelling evidence that a non-coach can understand. I absolutely want Petrino here until he retires, but if I'm pressed for a coach to hold accountable, that's the guy. Klenakis is just one of the offensive coaches who execute on what Petrino wants...
 
  • Like
Reactions: watchem
Klenakis is an outstanding O-line coach. He's not going anywhere nor should he (although there could be a shake up in the coordinator position to allow him to spend more time coaching the linemen).
The problems against Houston appeared to due more to lack of execution -- failing to pick up defensive rushers and false starts. Those are all on the players. Seriously, how many times can you false start AND allow the defense to run unblocked to the QB -- b/c it seemed like they happened on almost every play? And 11 sacks against the most elusive player in college football -- how bad would it have been without Lamar back there? If you asked the O-lineman, they would probably be the first to confess that they screwed the pooch. Not even sure that you can blame it on the short 4-day turnaround. Total lack of focus and execution. Period.
 
We have limited talent on the O line. That's squarely on recruiting. It's a line of 2-3 stars, and the future doesn't look any better based on next years class.

A good coach like Petrino will find a way to mask/compensate for a lack of talent. It worked well early in the season. BUT as the season went along, other good coaches saw those weaknesses and found ways to exploit them, culminating with the Houston game.

The bottom line remains the same: Our O line is vastly undertalented for the level of football that we want to be at. Klenakis is their coach and the one that recruited them.

Klenakis has two positions: O line coach and associate OC. I don't know enough about how he's done as associate OC, but the results of OL speak for themselves. Fire Klenakis completely? I don't know. Remove him from OL coaching/recruiting? To me that answer is obvious after 3 years.

Open the checkbook and get a good OL coach from a good SEC school just like they got Grantham from UGA. They bring instant credibility and lots of contact and relationships with the plethora of good to great recruits in the south. Wanna make a HUGE statement? Try to get Cristobal from Bama. His rep in the south goes all the way back to his playing days at Miami. He's now the OL coach at Bama. Oh yeah, he just got the only 5 star OL in the state of Ky to verbal to Bama.

If we can pull the DC from UGA, we have a chance to pull an OL coach from Bama.
 
We have limited talent on the O line. That's squarely on recruiting. It's a line of 2-3 stars, and the future doesn't look any better based on next years class.

A good coach like Petrino will find a way to mask/compensate for a lack of talent. It worked well early in the season. BUT as the season went along, other good coaches saw those weaknesses and found ways to exploit them, culminating with the Houston game.

The bottom line remains the same: Our O line is vastly undertalented for the level of football that we want to be at. Klenakis is their coach and the one that recruited them.

Klenakis has two positions: O line coach and associate OC. I don't know enough about how he's done as associate OC, but the results of OL speak for themselves. Fire Klenakis completely? I don't know. Remove him from OL coaching/recruiting? To me that answer is obvious after 3 years.

Open the checkbook and get a good OL coach from a good SEC school just like they got Grantham from UGA. They bring instant credibility and lots of contact and relationships with the plethora of good to great recruits in the south. Wanna make a HUGE statement? Try to get Cristobal from Bama. His rep in the south goes all the way back to his playing days at Miami. He's now the OL coach at Bama. Oh yeah, he just got the only 5 star OL in the state of Ky to verbal to Bama.

If we can pull the DC from UGA, we have a chance to pull an OL coach from Bama.
excellent post
 
It would be "excellent" if he had his facts straight...

To the best of my knowledge, here are the O-line and D-line recruits in our last three classes (2014-2016) who have reported:

O-LINE
Bell, Foy, Dematto, Mahoni, Thomas, Christian, Hunter, Jones, McNeil, Johnson, and Burns
(average RR = 5.55; Foy NR)

D-LINE
Slater, Williams, Tillman, Dorsey, Stallings, Asher, Robinson, Bailey, and Vatuvei
(average RR = 5.47)


These D-line guys are the three down linemen, not incl. the outside LBs. The linemen in these groups are the hardest to recruit nationally as far as landing the best prospects, and that's always been the case. The myth being perpetuated since Thursday is that we are sucking wind on the O-line as far as recruiting, while the quality of our average D-line recruit is no better and maybe a shade "worse".

I don't follow recruiting that closely, so I don't represent myself to be an expert in any way. But I recognize the smell of bull$hit when the wind carries it in...
 
Last edited:
Open the checkbook and get a good OL coach from a good SEC school just like they got Grantham from UGA. They bring instant credibility and lots of contact and relationships with the plethora of good to great recruits in the south. Wanna make a HUGE statement? Try to get Cristobal from Bama. His rep in the south goes all the way back to his playing days at Miami. He's now the OL coach at Bama. Oh yeah, he just got the only 5 star OL in the state of Ky to verbal to Bama.
this may be why Bama just snagged the only 5 star offensive tackle in the state of Kentucky, and louisville and its coach klanakis is relagated to rummaging juco to find someone who can stand up on the field.
 
Not sure where some of you have been. UofL's main recruiting focus has been on O-linemen and they landed several great recruits for next year. Some of you need to give up caffeine for a while. Our current O-line is good but young (and had a horrible game against Houston -- they know it) and there are more troops on the way. It will actually be a strong point for the next few years. Hard pill to swallow after the Houston loss but let's not go overboard.
 
  • Like
Reactions: watchem
Not sure where some of you have been. UofL's main recruiting focus has been on O-linemen and they landed several great recruits for next year. Some of you need to give up caffeine for a while. Our current O-line is good but young (and had a horrible game against Houston -- they know it) and there are more troops on the way. It will actually be a strong point for the next few years. Hard pill to swallow after the Houston loss but let's not go overboard.

Ummmm.................... Do WHAT? Where are these "great recruits" for next year? Check the home page of this site. We have 5 OL commits. Three 2 stars, and two 3 stars. Of those 5, check and see the other "powerhouse" schools that were recruiting them.

Volmer chose us over Marshall.

Poutasis next best offer was San Diego State

Palmers next best offer was Colorado state

Bently did choose us over GA Tech. Major coup there.

And lastly we have the long snapper Hall who only had ONE D-1 offer. UofL. He is not a "regular" lineman. He is purely a long snapper. He won't be an every down lineman. Long snaps only.

Yeah, I'm stoked. We beat out some mighty fine competition for those guys.
 
Again, our recent D-line recruits as a group are rated by Rivals NO HIGHER THAN our O-line recruits. This spans at least three years. And no one's pointing the finger at our D-line recruiting. Big, blue-chip linemen have always been hard to land on both sides of the ball.

This line of reasoning--O-line recruiting problem--is fundamentally flawed...
 
Again, our recent D-line recruits as a group are rated by Rivals NO HIGHER THAN our O-line recruits. This spans at least three years. And no one's pointing the finger at our D-line recruiting. Big, blue-chip linemen have always been hard to land on both sides of the ball.

This line of reasoning--O-line recruiting problem--is fundamentally flawed...

Yet our D line gets it done week in and week out. Lose Rankins to the draft at #12 overall, just plug in Brown and don't miss a beat. Ranked #6 nationally against the run.

O line ranks 121 out of 128 in sacks allowed. So the problem is either recruiting or coaching. Grantham is getting it done on his side with the same caliber of recruits.

I must admit that I get a guilty little chuckle when I use your own stats against you and you've got nothing to come back with. So go ahead and call me a slapd1ck if it makes you feel better little fella.
 
  • Like
Reactions: beasleythecard
Not trying to alibi for the coach or the kids, however the 3 games that our OL struggled was at Clemson, at UVA and at Houston. In 2 of those 3 games the crowd noise level was very high and certainly contributed to inability to hear the snap count leading to unprecedented illegal procedure penalties. The holding penalties are less excusable and against Houston it was primarily credit to their talent and their ability to mix up their blitz packages.
 
  • Like
Reactions: watchem
Again, our recent D-line recruits as a group are rated by Rivals NO HIGHER THAN our O-line recruits. This spans at least three years. And no one's pointing the finger at our D-line recruiting. Big, blue-chip linemen have always been hard to land on both sides of the ball.

This line of reasoning--O-line recruiting problem--is fundamentally flawed...
You don't know how bad the d-line will be in a couple years if we don't secure Hutch and develop others. We may have problems.
 
...O line ranks 121 out of 128 in sacks allowed. So the problem is either recruiting or coaching...
:D Oh, so now it's either recruiting or coaching. The guy who "follows recruiting" ain't sure if it's recruiting.

Now you know why I wasn't buying into your analysis the first time...
 
:D Oh, so now it's either recruiting or coaching. The guy who "follows recruiting" ain't sure if it's recruiting.

Now you know why I wasn't buying into your analysis the first time...

I don't think you have the cognitive reasoning to buy into anything. I asked you which it is, point blank and you deflect...........again.

There goes that guilty little grin inside.......again.......... LOL
 
In practice you have players on the opposite side getting the D-Line better/ready each week, (frankly they look pretty good to me) by being the players they are up against 100-140 plays a practice. I would bet few if any of those walk-on and redshirt players were on the travel roster at UH on the O-Line. Does what enables them to learn/execute on an opponents O-Line scheme and get the practice job done for a pretty good D-Line bode well for the future and their ability? Makes me optimistic actually.
 
Yet our D line gets it done week in and week out. Lose Rankins to the draft at #12 overall, just plug in Brown and don't miss a beat. Ranked #6 nationally against the run..

Just for the sake of argument, we are 6th against the run with a very weak schedule (according to ESPN and the FPOC).

The win/loss method says 53rd.

So, once again, we don't really know what we have when we haven't met a strong running team.

I think we'd do fine, but...if the O ain't working again, it could be a long day.
 
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT