2025 Baseball Budget...

[the artist FKA zipp]

I'm gonna post a more comprehensive analysis of the sports budgets on either the free basketball or football forums. But since we've been talking baseball money on active threads here, I thought I'd briefly discuss the baseball numbers...

YOY the baseball operating budget for 2025 is up 17%, in line with the overall athletics department. That's a large increase, way outpacing inflation.

If you want to evaluate where the baseball program is in 2024, you really have to look at more data. While the 2025 budget is up a lot, the rate of growth since 2018 and adjusting for inflation is a paltry 0.7% annually. If you look at the seven years from 2011 to 2018, that annual growth rate was 7.6%.

So the annual rate of growth in the baseball budget has declined by 90%--from 7.6% to 0.7%--in recent years. In my opinion, you don't need much more evidence than that to tell you why baseball is struggling. We've essentially stopped giving baseball any funding above inflation for a long period of time...

 

[Thecycle27]

I understand you are only focused on money. Explain how that lack of investment is why the program has been down.

The Covid year they were loaded probably a World Series team.

The year after Covid the position roster was loaded, Davis, Binelas, Dunn, Bowman, Usher, Metzinger, and Masterman all guys the ended up playing professional. Didn’t make the tournament.

Unless the reduction in investment killed recruiting which there is nothing to support it did——the money is only a piece of the issue. You are ignoring almost completely player acquisition, retention and development of players specifically pitching.

I would argue the staff lost sight of how they got to 5 World Series.

 

[the artist FKA zipp]

I understand you are only focused on money. Explain how that lack of investment is why the program has been down.

The Covid year they were loaded probably a World Series team.

The year after Covid the position roster was loaded, Davis, Binelas, Dunn, Bowman, Usher, Metzinger, and Masterman all guys the ended up playing professional. Didn’t make the tournament.

Unless the reduction in investment killed recruiting which there is nothing to support it did——the money is only a piece of the issue. You are ignoring almost completely player acquisition, retention and development of players specifically pitching.

I would argue the staff lost sight of how they got to 5 World Series.

There's no free lunch. And it took the Titanic a few hours to sink.

Translated...

Money matters, and the effects might not be obvious right away.

We're also not talking a slight change in course here... A real rate of growth of almost 8% is now close to zero. How can that be debated unless all you want to see is guys in uniform throwing and hitting the ball?...

 

[Thecycle27]

I have yet to see you tie this lack of investment directly to performance. You can’t do.

However, when you actually if you actually watch the guys in uniform throw and hit the ball you see coaches haven’t been getting the job done. We can’t praise the coaches when things are good and blame finances when things don’t go well. That is making an excuse instead of understanding they struggled developing kids since Covid.

Explain how finances impacted Koger, Phillips, Grundy, Legitt Campbell and Corbett? All have legit arm talent i.e velocity but none developed.

 

[the artist FKA zipp]

If money didn't matter, why don't we cut everything way back? I don't think you've addressed that question...

 

[Thecycle27]

I never said money didn’t matter. I said money is only a piece of the puzzle. You said the lack of investment is the reason for the decline. I disagree and I don’t think the cuts have impacted their ability to recruit.

Players actual performance has very little to do with finances. The investment is in coaches and facilities. Those factors attract the best players. The recruiting ranking aren’t declining like investments. They may of even their best classes the last 2 years.

That is why I asked how exactly is the decline in investment impacting performance. The position group hasn’t been bad. The pitching group has been. So are pitchers not coming to Louisville because they don’t have good facilities? Is there some technology Louisville can’t afford that other schools have?

Money isn’t flawless indicator of performance. Good example is all these kids coming from Div 2-3 that are excelling at this level. The kids can either pitch or hit money have zero impact of their talents.

 

[the artist FKA zipp]

I never said money didn’t matter. I said money is only a piece of the puzzle. You said the lack of investment is the reason for the decline. I disagree and I don’t think the cuts have impacted their ability to recruit…

Why are there financial rankings everywhere for the major athletic programs?

I don’t see too many for position groups like baseball starting pitching.

The slapd!cks move into a new ballpark, and they go to their first CWS. Another amazing coincidence…

 

[Thecycle27]

I am done. The stats support my position. Pitching has tanked since Covid. You have nothing to support finances had anything to do with that decline. Coach are paid top 10 money to recruit and develop players.

 

[the artist FKA zipp]

I am done. The stats support my position. Pitching has tanked since Covid. You have nothing to support finances had anything to do with that decline. Coach are paid top 10 money to recruit and develop players.

I never said we had good pitching. Nor has our defense, base running, and timely hitting been all that good. More amazing coincidences.

All I know is when most people see our finances and don’t get lost in the weeds, their eyebrows arch…

 

[earsky]

More amazing coincidences.

No,I think he's saying they're not. The class rankings show that the talent is still there,if that's what we're using to go by. However, that's going off the current Juniors to be. That class #3 in the country. The current incoming class #10. Mac has traditionally recruited very strong every other year since 2010. None of that has changed.
I will say that maybe there was a highly rated class that may have been an anomaly,possibly the class that came in 2020.

 

[Thecycle27]

This debate over finances is subjective because there is no direct correlation between investment and performance. No one can prove the decline or increase in investment is directly tied to poor or good performance.

We can’t complain about investment when we have a staff that is paid top 10-15 in country and they recruit top 10-20 classes. We would roast our football and basketball coaches if they performed like baseball has 3-4 years.

The coaches need to do a better job and figure out why they struggled so much since Covid.

 

[the artist FKA zipp]

Some of us don’t wanna talk about money in U of L athletics because our money situation sucks. I get it.

But anyone who wants to debate that money doesn’t matter to a big time athletic program—what we aspire to and what ours used to be—simply wants to argue.

Of course, lack of funding isn’t on a stat sheet or box score. That’s how it translates.

This program has had emerging issues in different areas while its funding has slowed significantly over many years. That’s absolutely a correlation and an important one.

There’s no free lunch…

 

[2330859]

No one is suggesting that money does not matter at UL; clearly the situation is disconcerting at best. While it affects all sports to some degree, I have not seen evidence that it can be responsible for the decline in UL Baseball.

Coaching is a huge factor, evidenced by the performance of football (with Brohm) and basketball (with Payne); as good versus bad has been on full display for both of those sports. The situation with Coach Dan is different, as no one questions his ability to manage the baseball program. Most will agree that for a combination of reasons that are not directly related to the financial condition, the pitching has declined and explains the poor performance.

 

[nccardfan]

Wouldn't it be great if there was just a separate board just talking about the financials, attendance, anything else that really to me matters little to me (because I can't do much by myself), all the mundane stuff that has little to do with the playing and performance of the game?? That way I wouldn't have to filter through and read all the repeititive negative that keeps popping us (of course by namely one poster).

 

[the artist FKA zipp]

Another interesting--and highly coincidental factoid...

Which two of the five revenue sports are faring the worst at the moment as far as playing goes? It obviously ain't football, women's basketball, or volleyball.

And which two sports lag the others in financial funding?...

INFLATION ADJUSTED BUDGETARY GROWTH SINCE 2018
Volleyball 29.3%
Women's basketball 16.7%
Football 13.9%
Baseball 5.0%
Men's basketball -23.5%

Obviously men's basketball is at the top of the dung heap where one would predict.

Yeah I know, you can't correlate this to the way the teams play...

 

[SoulSr]

We need a Forum- Off Topic Board.

 

[earsky]

Well,I think we're in a rough patch monetarily and performance wise for the Program. There's no doubt about that and I'm sure the hits that Mac and his Program have taken for the betterment and because of the bigger picture that is football and men's basketball, have caused a strain between Mac and the athletic department.

Tbs,Covid has really effed up Mac's ability to manage his roster the way he would like to. Consider having 4,5 and 6 year guys playing those extra years and having to redshirt or relegate guys to less playing time. It's been difficult for this group in particular because those older guys(and I'll go ahead and pick on the pitchers) have either mostly not improved or have battled injury.

Coaching and talent aside,we'll come out of it. Those cycles will slowly return where everyone that puts a uniform on will know where they stand. Just a thought- roster management and Covid. Somebody will probably write a book on it some day-maybe me.🤔

 

[nccardfan]

We need a Forum- Off Topic Board.

Yes, that's exactly my point. Even though the thread is 2025 Baseball Budget, it gives him another opportunity to spew his repetitive fixation. There's really only 1 topic and thats U of L financials but he wants to interject in every sports thread, the same theme over and over as he posted in the first thread

"I'm gonna post a more comprehensive analysis of the sports budgets on either the free basketball or football forums. But since we've been talking baseball money on active threads here, I thought I'd briefly discuss the baseball numbers...

So I agree with Soul Sr. , create a new Forum, call it U of L financials and get it out of the forums where fans want to talk SPORTS. We'll also find out just how many posters are interested in wanting to discuss the topic with Zipp and I won't have to filter through the repetitive interjections.

P.S - I know I don't have to read the threads but as I said when he interjects the same theme in every sport, its hard not to see it. Perhaps, maybe I could do like others have done and join the other message board. I don't seem to see that nonsense going on.

 

[the artist FKA zipp]

...I know I don't have to read the threads...

You took four paragraphs before coming to the right conclusion for yourself. You simply don't want someone expressing POVs you can't stomach.

The debate on "what's wrong with the team" is current and relevant. Should we also try to silence or ring fence @Thecycle27 because he just wants to harp on pitching? I'd rather not.

If you think one of us is a broken clock, quit looking at it to get the right time...

 

[Thecycle27]

Guilty as charged. The difference between me and Zipp is I actually understand the game of baseball. Pitching is far more important than hitting. There are teams like the 1st World Series team at Louisville where offense carriers the team but most of the time pitching is the key.

Here is the average runs given up in ACC play since 2018. To me this explains the entire issue.

2017—-3.48
2018—-4.05
2019—-4.75
2020-Covid best staff in a while
2021—6.17
2022–6.75
2023–6.40
2024-8.21

As I have been saying something happened after Covid with the pitching staff. Spin it however you want until pitching get back to 4-5 runs a game they will struggle.

The portal additional so far aren’t pitchers either.

 

[the artist FKA zipp]

I know a little about baseball and the importance of pitching.

What I know a lot about is how to analyze. You don't easily accept coincidences, esp. ones that only apply to your program. Everyone in the country endured Covid.

Our team across the board has underwhelmed starting at about the same point in time. And money was drained from baseball predominantly (along with men's basketball). Give me the option to improve just one, and I'll take pitching. But that doesn't explain our situation or serve as cause and effect.

U of L baseball has problems. That's plural...

 

[Thecycle27]

Actually the whole team didn’t struggle in the years since Covid. The teams in 2022 and 2024 had plenty of offensive production. There is no way to overcome giving up 8.21 runs in conference play but they managed a winning conference record in 2024. In 2022 that was a really good offensive team and carried them to the supers. In 2021 they were loaded in the position group they just under performed. Talent wasn’t the issue.
2023 was a transition year coming off the supers. Pitching wasn’t great and offense struggled. That happens.

When you don’t analyze the actual teams performance you are just making stuff up.
Again show me how the lack of investment directly impacted whom the coach chose to recruit pitching wise?

 

[earsky]

U of L baseball has problems. That's plural.

 

[nccardfan]

Guilty as charged. The difference between me and Zipp is I actually understand the game of baseball. Pitching is far more important than hitting. There are teams like the 1st World Series team at Louisville where offense carriers the team but most of the time pitching is the key.

Here is the average runs given up in ACC play since 2018. To me this explains the entire issue.

2017—-3.48
2018—-4.05
2019—-4.75
2020-Covid best staff in a while
2021—6.17
2022–6.75
2023–6.40
2024-8.21

As I have been saying something happened after Covid with the pitching staff. Spin it however you want until pitching get back to 4-5 runs a game they will struggle.

The portal additional so far aren’t pitchers either.

You may know more about baseball, basketball, football... it doesn't matter. He will never concede to anybody even when its proven there are a lot of people who know more about sports and dare I say, know more about finances. Lost cause he will never admit to it even when it is obvious and yet you continue to feed the beast...

 

[Thecycle27]

I agree just trying to show there is clear reason for the decline since Covid. I really don’t understand why pitching has tanked. It was extremely good before Covid. The stats back it up. I am actually open to the idea other factors, including financial, impacted their ability to obtain talent. I just haven’t seen a good explanation for this kind of decline. I mean 8.21 runs per game is insane, that is equivalent to KP defense and Petrino’s last year defense.

 

[the artist FKA zipp]

Actually the whole team didn’t struggle in the years since Covid. The teams in 2022 and 2024 had plenty of offensive production. There is no way to overcome giving up 8.21 runs in conference play but they managed a winning conference record in 2024. In 2022 that was a really good offensive team and carried them to the supers. In 2021 they were loaded in the position group they just under performed. Talent wasn’t the issue.
2023 was a transition year coming off the supers. Pitching wasn’t great and offense struggled. That happens.

When you don’t analyze the actual teams performance you are just making stuff up.
Again show me how the lack of investment directly impacted whom the coach chose to recruit pitching wise?

Our fielding and hitting with RISP have been subpar. So has our running on the basepaths.

No individual phase of the game has to do with money. As I said, it's not on a boxscore or stats summary.

The two sports that have been most impacted by U of L finances are men's basketball and baseball. That's documented. Which two sports have been the most disappointing?

Coincidences...

 

[the artist FKA zipp]

You may know more about baseball, basketball, football... it doesn't matter. He will never concede to anybody even when its proven there are a lot of people who know more about sports and dare I say, know more about finances...

Find people who know more about U of L athletics finances than me. Knock yourself out...

 

[nccardfan]

Find people who know more about U of L athletics finances than me. Knock yourself out...

Don't have to... I know so. You can't handle a condominium finances...

 

[nccardfan]

Our fielding and hitting with RISP have been subpar. So has our running on the basepaths.

No individual phase of the game has to do with money. As I said, it's not on a boxscore or stats summary.

The two sports that have been most impacted by U of L finances are men's basketball and baseball. That's documented. Which two sports have been the most disappointing?

Coincidences...

Most disappointing U of L sport - women's softball. Went from 36-20 in 2023 to 27-25 in 2024.

 

[the artist FKA zipp]

Don't have to... I know so. You can't handle a condominium finances...

How would you know?...

 

[the artist FKA zipp]

Most disappointing U of L sport - women's softball. Went from 36-20 in 2023 to 27-25 in 2024.

Softball budgets...

Not a lotta stability recently. This isn't a one year situation either. Might take sustained underfunding to observe a negative effect. These graphs are all varying levels of bad BTW...

 

[nccardfan]

How would you know?...

Cause i know you and so does everyone else, by how you react. You get all butthurt and start making inconsequential graphs....

 

[Thecycle27]

I hate to do it again……softball is dominated by pitching. Get good pitching watch how much they improve.

 

[the artist FKA zipp]

Cause i know you and so does everyone else, by how you react. You get all butthurt and start making inconsequential graphs....

"Butthurt" is how some people react to facts, which I rely on.

Let's ask the softball coach if how much money she receives is "inconsequential." As the data show, her program is all over the place in recent years. In fact, she's simply marking time with inflation since her 2019 arrival. No growth...