1-0 vs. UK in post-Kenny Payne era...
- Thread starter Mike'sMarbles
- Start date
IDK because we should have won that game last year that was bad luck . FT shooting worst game i beleive all year and NWora doing Whodini. Was like 16 missed ft's SMH.
You are really dialed in on recruiting I'm not at all... what I was thinking was, did Payne do a lot more than people realize for UK with recruiting not just top players but the guys that fit how they play?
idk what Payne really did .However i new it was just a matter of time before Cals luck would run out having a team of top eleite players all jell . You seen this with Duke,Nc and Ks the past few years. Now don't get it wrong elite talent still gives you the best chance to win at the highest level. But eventually all that talent is not going to jell it's only one ball and too much ego. Good fortune always runs it's course
Cal imop is just a avg coach with avg to above avg talent and this team he has is just above avg talent. They are not the elite guys their rankings say.That makes him look good every year . I think these guys were really over hyped. Sarrs was never a great player to begin with if he was he would already been in the NBA
I'm beginning to think Calipari 2020-21 is pulling a Bobby Petrino 2018. He doesn't give a ****. His buyout is ridiculously high (according to folks on the Cats Board it's $60 mill). His team has quit on him. He actually hopes he gets fired. Pocket the cash and ride off into the sunset.
Basketball is about the players. Coaching is a big part, but you have to have the players.
For years, UK has the players and we don’t.
Today, we had Carlik Jones, the best player on the floor. Today we won because Carlik Jones made big plays when it mattered. They didn’t have the players that could make plays and they lost.
Last year they relied on Quickley, Maxey, and Richards to beat us and they won. Last year, we had no show Nwora, Enoch, and Sutton and that’s why we lost.
Coaching can only do so much, I’ll give it to Cal where he drew up a good play and shot for Sarr but he didn’t hit. You don’t have the players, you don’t win.
For years, UK has the players and we don’t.
Today, we had Carlik Jones, the best player on the floor. Today we won because Carlik Jones made big plays when it mattered. They didn’t have the players that could make plays and they lost.
Last year they relied on Quickley, Maxey, and Richards to beat us and they won. Last year, we had no show Nwora, Enoch, and Sutton and that’s why we lost.
Coaching can only do so much, I’ll give it to Cal where he drew up a good play and shot for Sarr but he didn’t hit. You don’t have the players, you don’t win.
Yeah I see what you're saying.
I think when Cal first arrived they did take the sport by storm, he assembled some ridiculously talented teams. It feels like it's been a few years since UK has had a dominant player. They have had good players, the last great player I think we saw there was Fox/Adebayo maybe, and that was a few years back...
Early in Kenny's tenure, he and Joe B brought Denny in to teach half fronting the post the way Denny's teams do. It's been years ago and I can't remember the source. I don't watch enough of the Cayuts to know if they still attempt the half-post defense.
It's also too bad for Cal that Coach K decided he wanted NBA guys again.
The talent difference has been wide since Cal arrived. That is why the series is lopsided. The last 2 years the gap hasn’t been as big. The games tightened up. It still boils down to kids making plays.
I think Cal is an average coach. He has had the luxury of having the best players. Payne was a big part of that recruiting success. He was also the buffer between Cal and the players. Every coach needs someone to pickup the pieces. I think it is easy to see he doesn’t have that on his current staff.
I think Cal is an average coach. He has had the luxury of having the best players. Payne was a big part of that recruiting success. He was also the buffer between Cal and the players. Every coach needs someone to pickup the pieces. I think it is easy to see he doesn’t have that on his current staff.
and coindentally that timing coincides with the fbi investigations into payments, putting more scrutiny on uk, and maybe their pockets aren;t enough anymore. if you;ve noticed there are 5* players going to non power schools now. $$$ i'm sure is changing hands. but if you look at uk players over the past 5 years, you'll notice that #1 ranked players coming in are getting drafted in the bottom of first round instead of lottery picks. the pipeline cal created is no longer producing top 5 picks and thus recruits are going other places. why play with 5 or 6 guys as good as you adn have to share when you can go to any weak school anywhere and be the #1 draft pick. fultz & simmons both did ntohign in college and went #1 so why go to uk anymore?
You all touched on it, but my overall thoughts......
1) The top 2 to 3 no brainer guys are no longer going to UK. In recent years they have went to Memphis, Georgia, Okla St, etc. This will only get worse with the G league contract changes and NBA changing their 1 year rule in the near future
2) Payne was massive as he worked with the big guys and he was a key to getting these young guys to gel and come together and be unselfish
3) Older teams are dominating the game again. You have to have to 3+ Juniors and Seniors to go with these young guys.
4) Cal can no longer just roll the ball out and be better at every position. These AAU standout FR are getting punched in the mouth and they simply aren't ready for it.
1) The top 2 to 3 no brainer guys are no longer going to UK. In recent years they have went to Memphis, Georgia, Okla St, etc. This will only get worse with the G league contract changes and NBA changing their 1 year rule in the near future
2) Payne was massive as he worked with the big guys and he was a key to getting these young guys to gel and come together and be unselfish
3) Older teams are dominating the game again. You have to have to 3+ Juniors and Seniors to go with these young guys.
4) Cal can no longer just roll the ball out and be better at every position. These AAU standout FR are getting punched in the mouth and they simply aren't ready for it.
Another lesser factor is Kentucky's 1AD culture itself. Just because Calipari isn't getting the elite 1AD players anymore doesn't mean guys won't leave early anyway. It's expected in their culture. If a player isn't moving on to the League after 1 year, something is wrong with them by UK standards. Also the Kentucky 1AD culture of getting recruited over forces guys out.
I don't think Calipari can successfully change that culture himself. He built it and it's engrained in their program until they get a new coach.
I don't think Calipari can successfully change that culture himself. He built it and it's engrained in their program until they get a new coach.
I have to give a lot of credit to Coach Mack. His approach to this series doesn't mirror that of the previous guy.
Not to knock Pitino,but he downplayed it too much for me. So much so, it rubbed off on the players.Mack seems to embrace the importance of the game for the base. His approach and his players' response to that are very refreshing.
Not to knock Pitino,but he downplayed it too much for me. So much so, it rubbed off on the players.Mack seems to embrace the importance of the game for the base. His approach and his players' response to that are very refreshing.
One glaring difference outside of the self inflicted wounds that the cards have done to themselves against Uk with Mack as the coach. His system seems to be a better fit to defeat them than Ricks. We have pretty much seemed to be able say we should've /could've won . From the small sample size i'm feeling alot more comfortable going forward against them to be honest. I might not always expess that just because of the history of this game.
Not saying anyone is right or wrong, but Pitinos last season here when they beat uk the players said that Rick was more laid back than usual about the game and it helped them relax more to win.
So while he publicly might have downplayed the uk game it sounds like to his players he normally got really tight about the game and it rubbed off on his teams.
So while he publicly might have downplayed the uk game it sounds like to his players he normally got really tight about the game and it rubbed off on his teams.
Yeah style of play matters in matchups. It might be Macks pack line style fares better against uk than Rick's. But its weaker against teams like Florida State. Its a big reason why some teams struggle with some opponents but not with others . Think the rock paper scissors of the old UofL, Uconn, UK games we had.
Alot of truth their especially concerning FL.st Mack has had issues with them at Xavier. Like back when we couldn't beat Cincy they were always to physical.for our style. You just can't match up with everybkdy
Very valid point,magnified by the reality that the players had to feel added pressure because of the history between Pitino and UK.
I think the series between Louisville & sUcK is getting ready to change. With the recruiting Mack is doing he is building a solid base. He can also coach where Cal is relying on superior talent to win. My only concern now is that they will get rid of Cal and hire a real coach.
