I think that we all know it’s coming. Do the departures and injuries have any chance of buying KP a third season? Will Louisville basketball survive a third season?
The Year Three Refrain
- Thread starter Tenncard
- Start date
From a fan's perspective, the decision is painfully obvious. If you just watch a few minutes of any game and have any idea how basketball works, you know. But, fans don't get to make this decision.
I have no insight into what UofL's admin (AD, BOT, and President) is thinking.
If they want to get rid of Kenny, they can use for cover his abysmal W-L record and any random 5 minutes of footage from any game.
If they want to keep Kenny, they can use the injuries as cover.
I'm going to hope for an announcement of a major change in March/April.
I have no insight into what UofL's admin (AD, BOT, and President) is thinking.
If they want to get rid of Kenny, they can use for cover his abysmal W-L record and any random 5 minutes of footage from any game.
If they want to keep Kenny, they can use the injuries as cover.
I'm going to hope for an announcement of a major change in March/April.
The odds are they aren’t winning another game so it won’t matter. Injuries or not this entire program is a mess that is on KP. The data is clear he can’t run a program.
I hope not. But even when the team was healthy they weren't winning much and lost to a D2 team as well as other embarrassing losses.
Sure a third year is a possibility. People who have been predicting Payne would be out by now have been just as wrong as those predicting he will be out at a certain point.
Payne's not going anywhere on his own. And he's now down to "seven scholarship players." Next year, we will be back to a full roster.
Wait for it...
Payne's not going anywhere on his own. And he's now down to "seven scholarship players." Next year, we will be back to a full roster.
Wait for it...
i would pull the plug in March/April. it's a business decision. the employee (KP) is performing poorly on the job. nothing is going to change about his performance next year.
if money is an issue, i will look for a young good assistant coach who wants a head coaching job.
if money is an issue, i will look for a young good assistant coach who wants a head coaching job.
Payne is gone next year. I guarantee that. The potential drop in ticket sales will demand that.
Might as well dump the program then. If this continues the ACC is going to try to do something about it. And how could we blame them?
Louisville basketball is like a classic corvette sitting in the barn uncovered getting rusty. All it would take would be a new owner taking it to be restored, spending a bit of cash and then watching it sell for profit at Mercum Auto auctions.
Where there's a will there's a way.
Louisville basketball is like a classic corvette sitting in the barn uncovered getting rusty. All it would take would be a new owner taking it to be restored, spending a bit of cash and then watching it sell for profit at Mercum Auto auctions.
Where there's a will there's a way.
Any departures are squarely on Payne. And if we are brutally honest - of the out for the rest of the year guys, not one of them is a difference maker.
Payne - in addition to being the WOAT - also constructed a roster incapable of winning games in the way that he’s “coaching”. His staff is complete ratshit as well.
He does appear to be fairly capable of shaving his own head - so there’s that…
We’ve lost two to injuries, not terribly unusual. The other two were a departure and a very curious dismissal (or so we were told). Can’t blame injuries on coaching, but the other two….yep…on the staff.
Not too sure about that. Assuming Brohm keeps things improving in football, that's the big deal. Women's basketball and volleyball are strong. Baseball is hopefully just on a downtick.
Men's basketball is important but not essential. Not anymore. Look to our University leaders for guidance on that...
Last edited:
Payne is the 2nd highest paid employee at the University.
I don't have the data, but I guess he's about the 6th highest paid state employee in the entire state.
Really sad.
I don't have the data, but I guess he's about the 6th highest paid state employee in the entire state.
Really sad.
Last edited:
Football is king. FSU is looking to leave the ACC for any reason other than football money.
ACC basketball as a whole has stopped investing in its revenue generating sport. It has also gone through legendary coaches at the blue bloods with Assistants as replacements. It is in somewhat of a transition.
I still think there is something going on in the recruiting world that is hurting Louisville. Forget the obvious right now. Mack had the same problem he couldn’t land players at the ACC level. Even before that Pitino never recruited like he did at UK.
Something has shifted even more since the FBI issue. They haven’t had ACC level team talent wise since that day. Mack had talent with Pitino leftovers but after that nothing really. I only buy rankings when I see it with my eyes. Louisville is rarely the more athletic team. This is important when we talk about the next coach.
ACC basketball as a whole has stopped investing in its revenue generating sport. It has also gone through legendary coaches at the blue bloods with Assistants as replacements. It is in somewhat of a transition.
I still think there is something going on in the recruiting world that is hurting Louisville. Forget the obvious right now. Mack had the same problem he couldn’t land players at the ACC level. Even before that Pitino never recruited like he did at UK.
Something has shifted even more since the FBI issue. They haven’t had ACC level team talent wise since that day. Mack had talent with Pitino leftovers but after that nothing really. I only buy rankings when I see it with my eyes. Louisville is rarely the more athletic team. This is important when we talk about the next coach.
I certainly cannot imagine how a year three could be justified, unless as some have tried to suggest, the university is trying to de-emphasize the sport and remake the athletic department into a football focused department.
Perhaps there is some wacky world view where the total destruction of the Men’s BB program is in the best interest of the athletic department overall.
Maybe by doing so, they succeed in running off most of the fan base that finds losing seasons unacceptable, and in that way the bar can be lowered permanently to a level where a terrible coach like CKP is perfectly acceptable to run the team for the long haul….
One can certainly hope not, but I wouldn’t dismiss it entirely. The good news to a year 3 is that Payne would come cheap (from a salary standpoint at least), as he’s done absolutely nothing to earn any performance bonuses, a contract extension or a pay raise. Every penny saved on a buyout is a penny more that can be donated for NIL….
Perhaps there is some wacky world view where the total destruction of the Men’s BB program is in the best interest of the athletic department overall.
Maybe by doing so, they succeed in running off most of the fan base that finds losing seasons unacceptable, and in that way the bar can be lowered permanently to a level where a terrible coach like CKP is perfectly acceptable to run the team for the long haul….
One can certainly hope not, but I wouldn’t dismiss it entirely. The good news to a year 3 is that Payne would come cheap (from a salary standpoint at least), as he’s done absolutely nothing to earn any performance bonuses, a contract extension or a pay raise. Every penny saved on a buyout is a penny more that can be donated for NIL….
Last edited:
U of L has cut a total of $15 million in its men's basketball operating budgets since 2018. ($9.5 million in 2018; $7.9 million in 2024.)
INCLUDING Mack's buyout, we have "saved" a total of $5 million in head coaches' salaries in men's basketball since Pitino was fired. Without Mack's buyout, it would be double that which is probably an argument against buying out Payne. One thing a buyout does is cut into your savings.
Listen to all of the lip service you want. Nothing in there reads like a university and athletic department that prioritizes men's basketball anymore...
Last edited:
I hear what you are saying but I think losing JJ was a significant blow. Was he all that? No, but I thought he was coming on plus being the son of a former local U of L player has some weight. Does JJ want to come back under Payne, play for another coach or transfer?
I believe absolutely that JJ has played his last game as a Cardinal. It seems to be an absurd and unrealistic statement, but if by some chance Kenny is retained for a third year, the program will fall off a cliff from where they are now. The cavalry ain’t coming.
We are already over the cliff the next step is to make a hire based on proven capabilities and get us back on the cliff.
IMO - the biggest thing he had going were being a local kid and his family connections to the program. I agree that he was coming on but, we have to remember where he started / was. Truthfully, he wouldn’t have cracked the top 8-9 on a solid UofL roster previously.
Well…a solid roster with a competent coaching staff.
Couldn't agree more but there's plenty of cheaper routes to take rather than promising 10 million to the next guy. I'm surely in the minority that believes there are guys out there making probably around a million a year or less at mid majors that can flat out get it done.
As I type,there are currently around 5-6 mid majors that reside in the top 25 and a few others just outside it that will make some noise come March.
Utah St. George Mason
Colorado St. FAU
BYU. St Bonny
Creighton. Providence
Boise St. Bradley
And these are just the ones off the top of my head. I doubt any of the head coaches at these schools makes much $$ . My point is I don't think it has to be a 10 million dollar gamble. They can all coach and the gamble would be significantly less with any of them. KP was a mistake and the people that are searching for the next guy shouldn't have to make such a costly one.
To me,the gamble should just be going after one of these guys flying under the radar for a lot less..
Davenport fits that set of criteria nicely. AND, he actually gives a shit about the university and the town. Bonus!
And I think U of Lwill go the cheaper route. Not sure that matters because even a guy with the potential of Chris Mack failed here.
This is how the $10 million is estimated... Mack cost $4 million annually in 2018. If his 2024 coaching equivalent costs $5 million now, that's a total of $7 million ($5 + $2 million to buy out Payne) per year for the next three years. Payne makes $3.5 million annually now, which means we're paying an upcharge of $3.5 million for three years. $10.5 million total.
Again, that's to land a new coach of the level Mack was in 2018. There's no obvious replacement hire like Brohm in football. Whoever the guy is, there will be a lot of show-me fans. I'm likely one of them...
