Recruiting

[shadow force]

If Payne is back for year 3 then he has to retain the young guys at least. Then he absolutely has to hit the portal harder than he ever has to get some upperclassmen experience, shooters, and fill positions of need. So far he has zero commits signed for next season.

His recent comments about just realizing he needed to get experience out of the portal didn't go over well and made him seem about as clueless as we feared. He also has to change his stance on utilizing NIL as he's said he doesn't like using it and doesn't factor it in much when trying to recruit. Also there are plenty of rumors he and his staff are lazy in recruiting and could've landed some better guys but didn't bother to do certain things like returning calls etc.

His roster mismanagement has to improve including roster balance. I hope he finally realizes his teams need actual guards, including natural Point guards, that can handle, play make etc and not just more wings who can't do either.

 

[Mike'sMarbles]

If Kenny does get a Year 3, it pretty much proves he doesn't have to do much of anything. Or at least, he doesn't have to do anything we as fans would consider as measurable goals for success.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

If Kenny does get a Year 3, it pretty much proves he doesn't have to do much of anything. Or at least, he doesn't have to do anything we as fans would consider as measurable goals for success.

Exactly. If he returns fans really need to stop putting themselves through the "this is how you fix it to get more wins" approach. It's not about winning. If it was, he's not getting year 3.

KP is doing this how he wants, and if he's surviving these 2 seasons, he's not going to shift gears all that much to figure out the quickest way to winning. He views it as a long-term culture rebuild that is player centric.

So let's see if he returns, and then see what players return if he does. If he returns, and the key players don't, fans really do need to walk away. Fans are justified to walk away if he does return even if his players return too.

I'm sticking around no matter what. It's a different sort of entertainment.

 

[HiStepper]

If Kenny does get a Year 3, it pretty much proves he doesn't have to do much of anything. Or at least, he doesn't have to do anything we as fans would consider as measurable goals for success.

How many "we" fans here are supporting this program through buying tickets, owning suites or being a donor instead of only through their "pride" as a Louisville fan?

 

[shadow force]

Payne's supporters like to say he is still learning the job and needs more time to figure out how to win. And that even now he is improving.

I'm not one of those fans but was leaning more towards that direction for this thread- as in he actually wants to win more games and succeed. But maybe none of that is true like some have said.

But if he returns and loses key guys while also not recruiting new talent or hitting the portal then he's in for another single digit win season.

 

[shadow force]

Exactly. If he returns fans really need to stop putting themselves through the "this is how you fix it to get more wins" approach. It's not about winning. If it was, he's not getting year 3.

KP is doing this how he wants, and if he's surviving these 2 seasons, he's not going to shift gears all that much to figure out the quickest way to winning. He views it as a long-term culture rebuild that is player centric.

So let's see if he returns, and then see what players return if he does. If he returns, and the key players don't, fans really do need to walk away. Fans are justified to walk away if he does return even if his players return too.

I'm sticking around no matter what. It's a different sort of entertainment.

Maybe you're right. I was thinking logically Payne would want to do certain things to help him win more games and maybe have some actual success.

However so far Payne has shown what appears to be lack of common sense so he might think he doesn't need to do anything different to succeed.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Maybe you're right. I was thinking logically Payne would want to do certain things to help him win more games and maybe have some actual success.

However so far Payne has shown what appears to be lack of common sense so he might think he doesn't need to do anything different to succeed.

You're measuring stick for success is wins. He's made it pretty clear he's not all that angry about losing. If he really wanted to win do you think he's starting his no talent son @ WF when he has Williams, Glenn, and Ty Laur healthy on his bench? Or playing his no talent son at all? Or Danilo? Ever?

Winning is a biproduct of it. Now, if you gave him 7 5* guys and a few 4* guys he'd probably win more, but his approach would still be the same.

 

[shadow force]

You're measuring stick for success is wins. He's made it pretty clear he's not all that angry about losing. If he really wanted to win do you think he's starting his no talent son @ WF when he has Williams, Glenn, and Ty Laur healthy on his bench? Or playing his no talent son at all? Or Danilo? Ever?

Winning is a biproduct of it. Now, if you gave him 7 5* guys and a few 4* guys he'd probably win more, but his approach would still be the same.

If that is true, which it could very well be, then that is effing mind blowing when you put it that way. It makes it even worse that he doesn't even consider winning as the main part of his job.

It's inconceivable to me and most other fans but it would explain so much of what we've seen so far. It also invalidates much of what his supporters say- not that they know any more than anyone else but I doubt even they would like hearing that he doesn't prioritize winning.

But if all that is true, I want him gone and away from influencing this program more than ever. And if Heird is okay with all that I'd want him gone too.

 

[CardsDan]

Payne's supporters like to say he is still learning the job and needs more time to figure out how to win. And that even now he is improving.

I'm not one of those fans but was leaning more towards that direction for this thread- as in he actually wants to win more games and succeed. But maybe none of that is true like some have said.

But if he returns and loses key guys while also not recruiting new talent or hitting the portal then he's in for another single digit win season.

Louisville shouldn't ever be hiring coaches that need on the job training. What a comedown for this program.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

If that is true, which it could very well be, then that is effing mind blowing when you put it that way. It makes it even worse that he doesn't even consider winning as the main part of his job.

It's inconceivable to me and most other fans but it would explain so much of what we've seen so far. It also invalidates much of what his supporters say- not that they know any more than anyone else but I doubt even they would like hearing that he doesn't prioritize winning.

But if all that is true, I want him gone and away from influencing this program more than ever. And if Heird is okay with all that I'd want him gone too.

I don't think they are saying they don't want to win, they just made it clear it's not the core mission to win asap. That's the disconnect. If winning was the core mission, he's not getting year 3.

He is trying to build culture. It feels like he's given every single player a chance, including his no talent not even good enough to be walk-on son. Not saying that's by design or was truly a strategy. But this is not the standard approach a HC makes if they believe their job is on the line and they need to win asap.

If they bring him back, the diversity, former player, and culture approach is the priority. That, and staying out of the FBI crosshairs. $ might be a part of this too. A # of legit variables. But winning asap just ain't at the top of their list. Or, they just believe this method will eventually get there.

I'm not saying they are definitely keeping him either. But if they do, I really think our fans gotta realize it's not the program they grew up cheering for, and you are setting yourself up for frustration if you are looking for winning asap.

 

[rh62531]

The fact we have to let a coach two plus years to learn how to coach, establish accountability (which was and still is a failure), how many players you need, what kind of players and their abilities match our needs, how to substitute, ....., use recruiting tools, continuous recruiting, time management not only in games, but in the entire program, customer, fan relations, public speaking, ...... is an incredible failure in every way.

 

[the artist FKA zipp]

I don't think they are saying they don't want to win, they just made it clear it's not the core mission to win asap. That's the disconnect. If winning was the core mission, he's not getting year 3…

Should be pretty obvious by now that the overriding priorities are not winning a lot of games and doing it anytime soon.

It’s the main reason I think all of this hate directed at Payne is in fact misdirected. For all we know, he’s executing in the job exactly as he needs to be and is at little risk of losing it…

 

[Mike'sMarbles]

The fact we have to let a coach two plus years to learn how to coach, establish accountability (which was and still is a failure), how many players you need, what kind of players and their abilities match our needs, how to substitute, ....., use recruiting tools, continuous recruiting, time management not only in games, but in the entire program, customer, fan relations, public speaking, ...... is an incredible failure in every way.

What you see from Kenny today is exactly what you'll see from him in 5 years if he's still coaching.

He is not learning on the job.

Kenny had opportunities to learn from the great Denny Crum, plus a number of good NBA coaches during his playing career, and a number of coaches in his assistant's career.

He learned nothing.

What you see is what you get.

 

[beantowncard]

You're measuring stick for success is wins. He's made it pretty clear he's not all that angry about losing. If he really wanted to win do you think he's starting his no talent son @ WF when he has Williams, Glenn, and Ty Laur healthy on his bench? Or playing his no talent son at all? Or Danilo? Ever?

Winning is a biproduct of it. Now, if you gave him 7 5* guys and a few 4* guys he'd probably win more, but his approach would still be the same.

Maybe he was making a point; those guys might have been dogging it in practice. If that’s not the case, then yes, it’s a little crazy.

 

[beantowncard]

Should be pretty obvious by now that the overriding priorities are not winning a lot of games and doing it anytime soon.

It’s the main reason I think all of this hate directed at Payne is in fact misdirected. For all we know, he’s executing in the job exactly as he needs to be and is at little risk of losing it…

I love a good conspiracy theory, but having this many people plotting to destroy UofL athletics is a bit much.

 

[achilles992000]

KP is getting a year 3. accept it and move on.

 

[AnotherCFD]

I knew this would happen when Heird didn’t fire 🤡 when he should have. Louisville doesn’t care about winning anymore just checking the DEI boxes.

 

[Thecycle27]

Here is the path to getting a 3rd year.

1) They have to keep winning games and even a game or 2 in the ACC tournament. I don’t have a number except it can’t look awful multiple times.
2) Knox committing to Louisville gives him another deposit.
3) Portal- things are done behind the scenes before players even hit the portal. A couple of players already lined up.
4)Current players commit to returning.

1-4 fall apart then he isn’t getting a 3rd. 1-4 fall into place there will be a tough decision to be made for Heird.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Maybe he was making a point; those guys might have been dogging it in practice. If that’s not the case, then yes, it’s a little crazy.

I can't say on that one.

But what we know for sure is Zan Payne has appeared in 16 of the 24 games, which is 14 too many. You can make a case for victory cigar against Coppin St and/or Pepperdine. That's it. Now if you want to say a couple appearances were some kind of motivational ploy okay, but since he's getting him in there 16 games, this is not a motivational pawn move. It's something else, and it's embarrassing for the HC and the kid.

I'm pretty sure he's entered all 16 games in the first half, when the outcome isn't determined. Those minutes matter, especially when you're losing these close games. He's given the team nothing in 16 games. Zilch. It's just ridiculous, there is no way any HC could look at that available roster and make a case for that player getting into all these games like this, if winning is a priority.

I'd be upset if I was taking this era seriously. But I'm not. I'm all for KP getting the last laugh in a few years, it's not personal.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

What you see from Kenny today is exactly what you'll see from him in 5 years if he's still coaching.

He is not learning on the job.

Kenny had opportunities to learn from the great Denny Crum, plus a number of good NBA coaches during his playing career, and a number of coaches in his assistant's career.

He learned nothing.

What you see is what you get.

Exactly. What we are seeing is his method, not some on job training. This is his preference on how to handle the HC job. It's player centric, and it's more directed towards a focus on that locker room only, or mostly. It's actually showing to be effective in very small spaces - the development of BHH, the team not quitting, emergence of Ty-Laur. It is for sure true this group has more fight than last year's group. I'm okay with crediting KP for that mild culture change, but the results are just so far from where they need to be.

 

[the artist FKA zipp]

I love a good conspiracy theory, but having this many people plotting to destroy UofL athletics is a bit much.

I’m not into conspiracy theories when a simpler explanation suffices such as incompetency.

But as time passes, a conspiracy becomes more plausible. Given enough time, it becomes the only explanation to make sense…

 

[Thecycle27]

The portal changes everything. Coaches have to cater to the kids to some extent. Coaches are quickly becoming like NBA coaches with less and less leverage. In many ways college is far more difficult due to no contractual agreement.

This is much more complicated than KP sucking.