Matt Jones the total idiot

[shadow force]

And you have zero proof that he wouldn't have gone first round. Just opinions on both our part.

That's where we differ. I never said Smith would OR would not have been drafted in the first round. You asked me that question and I straight up told you "We'll never know for sure." You are the one that keeps going around spouting that Russ would've been drafted in the first round as if it were a proven fact.

Like I've said in the past, I do and have given Cal credit before on getting some of his players drafted especially guys like Harrellson and Booker. I noticed you dodged my question to you about Russ in my previous post. Does Pitino get credit for that or not? And what about Rozier who went much higher in the draft than anyone thought?

About Blackshear and Behanan, yeah Pitino gets some of the fault for that. However, I contend that after 2 major shoulder surgeries Blackshear simply wasn't the same player he was in high school. Behanan was an under sized PF who was apparently a bone head off the court.

 

[zipp]

...If we put so much more emphasis on basketball, why did we finish higher than you in the Director's Cup...again? We spend a lot of money on football, but we're going up against teams that still spend twice as much as we do every year. We are good in women's hoops, softball, baseball (not to your level, but you have an elite coach), volleyball. You're the program with all that revenue, thanks to your Yum Center deal...

I and others have listed many times U of L's accomplishments in sports that matter. And LPT is a shadow of U of L in those sports. Doesn't matter what a "cup" says that elevates riflery to those levels. Why you're not competitive across the major sports is irrelevant. You're just filling your role as a BCS bottom feeder.

Louisville has built its revenue base from the grass roots, unlike LPT that just bends over for an annual SEC check. The Yum Center contract is a red herring--you don't know anything of substance and are just spewing garbage that you hear other uninformed LPT fans say. If you wanna talk about arena finances, start another thread. (As you know, I've come to love that subject...) But Louisville was making a ton of money in basketball long before Bailout Arena came along.

...U of L is our regular season Super Bowl, and we are yours. That's the way it should be, if we want to claim the best rivalry in college basketball. But Cal is hearing it from fans despite being 7-1 "in our Super Bowl".

Louisville has a number of good basketball teams on its schedule each year and plays in the best conference in history. And still with that as a backdrop, U of L doesn't place as much emphasis--relatively speaking--on basketball. We don't really have a Super Bowl in basketball like LPT does. Don't need one.

"Elite program", my a$$...

 

[zipp]

That is odd, because I recall that it mattered a whole hell of a lot to Zipp and I suspect every other UofL fan before the current streak. It is a big rivalry game, so it has to mean something, even though in the grand scheme of the season it is overshadowed by the tournament. I've seen a ton of posts on Louisville message boards criticizing Pitino for not winning the game recently, and I have seen posts of the UK boards criticizing Cal for trying to downplay the game's significance (though I get why he does that because of the young players).

For U of L fans, a lot of the mystique surrounding the game ended ironically when it started being played regularly. It's been a huge game for a long time only to LPT fans--maybe because they got tired of hearing what a bunch of chicken $hits they were for not playing it. I don't know, you'd have to get inside the mind of an LPT fan to understand that.

But it's clearly why you're here in the middle of summer talking about it. You're fixated on basketball, your conference is a dumpster fire, and U of L is one of the few games each year to get worked up for. We all get that here--its' LPT fans who don't own it.

"Elite program", my a$$...

 

[Shawn (uk7spd)]

For U of L fans, a lot of the mystique surrounding the game ended ironically when it started being played regularly. It's been a huge game for a long time only to LPT fans--maybe because they got tired of hearing what a bunch of chicken $hits they were for not playing it. I don't know, you'd have to get inside the mind of an LPT fan to understand that.

But it's clearly why you're here in the middle of summer talking about it. You're fixated on basketball, your conference is a dumpster fire, and U of L is one of the few games each year to get worked up for. We all get that here--its' LPT fans who don't own it.

"Elite program", my a$$...

How do you reconcile your belief that UK fans see the game as their "Super Bowl" with your belief that UK fans believe it is title or bust every year? If it really is all or nothing, then wouldn't the UofL game mean very little if anything at all? You appear to be contradicting yourself.

 

[zipp]

How do you reconcile your belief that UK fans see the game as their "Super Bowl" with your belief that UK fans believe it is title or bust every year? If it really is all or nothing, then wouldn't the UofL game mean very little if anything at all? You appear to be contradicting yourself.

First of all, everything in basketball is important to LPT fans because of their addiction. It's all relative. Again, it's why YOU are here in July.

If you asked an LPT fan would he rather win a championship or beat U of L, of course most will say the former. The "Super Bowl" label was coined by your coach. He didn't mean the actual Super Bowl--the championship.

Ask another LPT fan would he rather beat U of L or get to, say, the Final Four--if you could only do one. That should give you a pretty guy idea of U of L's importance.

"Elite program", my a$$...

 

[JC for 3]

"U of L doesn't place as much emphasis--relatively speaking--on basketball."

....maybe you should look up what RP is being paid. ...and with such 'little' emphasis on basketball, the powers that be sure thought a new basketball arena was needed.

 

[JC for 3]

...beating uofl is not as important as winning titles, Zipp. That's quite a reach, even for you. Beating uofl has simply become the expected result.

 

[Shawn (uk7spd)]

First of all, everything in basketball is important to LPT fans because of their addiction. It's all relative. Again, it's why YOU are here in July.

If you asked an LPT fan would he rather win a championship or beat U of L, of course most will say the former. The "Super Bowl" label was coined by your coach. He didn't mean the actual Super Bowl--the championship.

Ask another LPT fan would he rather beat U of L or get to, say, the Final Four--if you could only do one. That should give you a pretty guy idea of U of L's importance.

"Elite program", my a$$...

OK, now we are getting somewhere. So it is your contention that for most or even the average UK fan, beating UofL is more important than getting to the Final Four? I wholeheartedly disagree with that. In fact, we can start a poll on the UK board. I suspect, assuming the poll doesn't get infiltrated by trolls (you excluded), that upwards of 95% of UK fans would say not only that the Final Four is more important but that it is WAY more important. But I suspect such a poll would be worthless because you would simply, as you do, come up with some delusion as to why it is invalid, perhaps that UK fans would never publicly admit how they really feel about the UofL game. Such is the reality of internet message boards.

 

[zipp]

"U of L doesn't place as much emphasis--relatively speaking--on basketball."

....maybe you should look up what RP is being paid. ...and with such 'little' emphasis on basketball, the powers that be sure thought a new basketball arena was needed.

People are paid based on what their market demand is. A courier as you know, makes minimum wage plus.

This stuff is all about money esp. at U of L. You gotta fill an overpriced arena, you gotta have a good team, and you gotta pay big bucks for a coach.

Unlike LPT, you'll find all of the other U of L coaches are highly paid in their sports. That's the way Jurich wants it because he wants the best.

The City of Louisville built Bailout Arena because (they think) they want an NBA team. Start an arena thread if you wanna have that discussion.

"Elite program", my a$$...

 

[zipp]

...beating uofl is not as important as winning titles, Zipp. That's quite a reach, even for you. Beating uofl has simply become the expected result.

And if it's unextraordinary, why are you here during working hours on a daily basis talking about it? Is your life THAT empty otherwise??

"Elite program", my a$$...

 

[zipp]

OK, now we are getting somewhere. So it is your contention that for most or even the average UK fan, beating UofL is more important than getting to the Final Four? I wholeheartedly disagree with that. In fact, we can start a poll on the UK board. I suspect, assuming the poll doesn't get infiltrated by trolls (you excluded), that upwards of 95% of UK fans would say not only that the Final Four is more important but that it is WAY more important...

Start the poll, and make sure the respondents know that they can only do one... Beat U of L or make it to a Final Four but not a championship. You can have a good but not great season, but only if you lose to U of L.

BTW, I didn't say it would be a slam-dunk take the Final Four. I just said the results will tell you where the U of L game ranks. If it's close, there you go.

Also, make sure no one posts WHY you are starting the poll--this thread. As any researcher knows, that biases the results. (Yes, I don't expect you to understand that...)

"Elite program", my a$$.

 

[Shawn (uk7spd)]

And if it's unextraordinary, why are you here during working hours on a daily basis talking about it? Is your life THAT empty otherwise??

"Elite program", my a$$...

Aren't you doing the same thing?

And he never said it was "unextraordinary." You are setting up a straw man. He simply said it was not as important as titles. There is a HUGE gap between "unextraordinary" and championship importance. The UofL game is somewhere in the gap, but far behind titles and Final Fours, and frankly far behind even making the tournament. To argue otherwise is silly.

 

[Shawn (uk7spd)]

Just posted the poll here. I believe I worded it as fairly as possible, including saying that UK loses in the Final Four game, rather than reaching the title game (rather than your limitation, which was winning the title, which would allow for a title game appearance in your scenario).

Also, you can knock of the personal attacks. It is not really necessary. I obviously understand "biases" in polls. You don't have to be a researcher to understand that. I of course would not say "Hey, Zipp is being his typical self, so to prove him wrong, vote in this poll."

BTW, early results are 7-0 in favor of Final Four.

 

[J-Rye_UL]

Hmm, so I guess he views this as a new phenomenon because the SEC has historically had at least one or two other very strong teams, and UofL was in mid-major conferences until 10 years ago. As I said, if that game is our Super Bowl, then we are doing pretty damn good, so it doesn't bother me.

My bad, I didn't realize the 7-1 record that UK fans celebrate extends all the way back to 2004 when Louisville was in CUSA.

I'm not going to lie to you. That 2014 loss to UK in the Sweet 16 was the most painfull of my lifetime. The regular season losses to UK in December suck, but nothing like losing a Big East conference clinching game.

 

[J-Rye_UL]

And you have zero proof that he wouldn't have gone first round. Just opinions on both our part.

Everyone is entitled to have their opinion. Fact is, some opinions are just wrong, like saying Russ Smith was a 1st Round draft pick after 2013. For the record, I don't think Goodwin should have been anywhere near the 1st round either. I loved Russ's game. I would have picked him in the 1st round over Goodwin. But I'm not an NBA GM, and mock drafts, primarily molded by NBA GM's, had Russ Smith nowhere near the 1st round. Maybe he could've pulled a Larry Nance Jr. and went from projected undrafted to 1st round, but that's not a risk I want to take if I'm Russ.

 

[Shawn (uk7spd)]

Poll update: 10-0 in favor of Final Four.

 

[Steelers2012]

Just posted the poll here. I believe I worded it as fairly as possible, including saying that UK loses in the Final Four game, rather than reaching the title game (rather than your limitation, which was winning the title, which would allow for a title game appearance in your scenario).

Also, you can knock of the personal attacks. It is not really necessary. I obviously understand "biases" in polls. You don't have to be a researcher to understand that. I of course would not say "Hey, Zipp is being his typical self, so to prove him wrong, vote in this poll."

BTW, early results are 7-0 in favor of Final Four.

FWIW, the poll question seems to be pretty straight forward (and without slant or bias), but nobody seems to want to answer the question in a straight forward manner. As you keep saying, they are REALLY overthinking the question. It's pretty funny.

 

[Shawn (uk7spd)]

FWIW, the question seems to be pretty straight forward (and without slant or bias), but nobody seems to want to answer the question in a straight forward manner. As you keep saying, they are REALLY overthinking the question. It's pretty funny.

Ha, I know. That is Rafters for you. Hopefully some will feel better once I eventually reveal the purpose of the poll. I am already getting reamed for a dumb question, which should hopefully be all the proof that is necessary for Zipp that there is no way UK fans value beating Louisville over a Final Four. In fact, it is not close. As I said above, I would venture to say that most UK fans would pick making the tournament over beating Louisville, much less getting to a Final Four.

 

[Shawn (uk7spd)]

Update: Poll is 11-0 in favor of Final Four, and I am being criticized for asking a dumb question. Pretty obvious how UK fans feel, Zipp, even with the small sample size. And I posted it on Rafters. On HOB, the results would be more straightforward without all the crazies.

 

[Steelers2012]

Ha, I know. That is Rafters for you. Hopefully some will feel better once I eventually reveal the purpose of the poll. I am already getting reamed for a dumb question, which should hopefully be all the proof that is necessary for Zipp that there is no way UK fans value beating Louisville over a Final Four. In fact, it is not close. As I said above, I would venture to say that most UK fans would pick making the tournament over beating Louisville, much less getting to a Final Four.

Welllllll...there IS quite a bit of equivocation in the responses. It's obviously not quite as cut and dry as the poll results may indicate. I think the part they can't fathom is the part that they ONLY reach the Final Four, but don't win a title.

 

[Shawn (uk7spd)]

Welllllll...there IS quite a bit of equivocation in the responses. It's obviously not quite as cut and dry as the poll results may indicate. I think the part they can't fathom is the part that they ONLY reach the Final Four, but don't win a title.

It is only a couple of posters, but to be fair, it is a dumb question because the two are not related and there are limitations (such as not winning the title). There really isn't any other way to word it because you can't say Louisville game vs. Elite 8, because that still leaves open the possibility of a title.

The bottom line is that only Zipp is crazy enough to believe that UK fans sincerely place more importance on the Louisville game than reaching the Final Four. It is a silly proposition and now is a silly poll question.

 

[JC for 3]

Poll now 22-0 in favor of the Final Four....

 

[dantucky]

Yeah

 

[zipp]

Aren't you doing the same thing?

And he never said it was "unextraordinary." You are setting up a straw man...

The courier said "expected"; I said "unextraordinary". You tell me the difference.

And I'm here because it's my message board, and I don't have a day job--don't need one--like the courier does in his "law firm". In other words, I'm where I'm supposed to be and when.

"Elite program", my a$$...

 

[zipp]

Poll update: 10-0 in favor of Final Four.

First of all, nice job pee-ing all over yourself trying to explain your poll in that thread. Not that I envy anyone trying to explain ish to LPT fans--I know that drill. But that give-and-take at the beginning was classic.

The comments tell me exactly what I expected. LPT fans consistently don't wanna answer that question, because they can't bring themselves to the point of losing to U of L. It's a simple question despite your effort to complicate it. It's just a complex issue for LPT fans to deal with.

Oh, the only people voting in your poll are the "yes" votes. Looks like you're gonna need one that compels the "no" votes too. Not sure how you do that.

"Elite program", my a$$...

 

[kozmas]

That's funny, since the SEC won titles in 2012, 2007, 2006, 1998, 1996, and 1994. That's on top of the teams they had in the final in 2014, 2000, 1997 and 1995. They also had two teams in the Final Four in 2014, 2007, 1996 and 1994.

I'm pretty sure the ACC is the only other conference that can match that during the last 25 years. Not bad for a football league.

 

[kozmas]

There is no way you can compare the SEC with the ACC, the ACC has around 8 or 10 teams every year that are threats to make it to the Final Four. They are invited to the tournament and are paired against each other. The SEC is basically a 2 team race every year the rest of the conference is awful and their gyms are so small and empty they don't even have home court advantages. All those stats you posted showing the success of the SEC was Florida and Kentucky.
Since Calipari has been at Kentucky the conference is even worse than what it was before he came there. It will be interesting to see if the SEC improves to the point where they have more than 2 good teams every year. Once that happens and Kentucky is no longer top dog every year that is when Calipari will leave.

 

[zipp]

koz, the comparison of the SEC and ACC in basketball is distilled to this...

2015 NCAA tourney results:
ACC 17-5 (0.773)
SEC 6-5 (0.545)

Since the SEC is dominated by one basketball team, what those numbers mean is that if LPT played in the ACC this past year, they would have played opposing conference teams that went 17-5 (0.773) in the tourney. Instead, they played conference teams that went 2-4 (0.333).

There's no clearer explanation of the path to a gaudy 38-1 record than that.

"Elite program", my a$$...

 

[Senore2006]

I think you are forgetting the fact that you are playing SEC basketball which barely a step above high school basketball.

And always has been, lol.

How hard is it in college basketball to have the glossiest winning percentage against teams with these historical records?

UK vs..........

Mississippi 103-13
Miss State 85-18
Auburn 97-12
So Carolina 50-11
Vandy 146-46 ( a contendah!!)
Florida 97-37
Georgia 119-26

Honestly, that's called "slumming it" in any other language. There is no secret why UK endures all their incredibly ugly football misery as a cost of staying in this bizarre excuse for a hoops conference.

 

[dantucky]

Metro

 

[zipp]

SEZ

(That's current BTW.)

"Elite program", my a$$...

 

[dantucky]

Bird gang

 

[Steelers2012]

Bird gang

Care to elaborate?

 

[JC for 3]

"How hard is it in college basketball to have the glossiest winning percentage against teams with these historical records?
UK vs..........

Mississippi 103-13
Miss State 85-18
Auburn 97-12
So Carolina 50-11
Vandy 146-46 ( a contendah!!)
Florida 97-37
Georgia 119-26

Honestly, that's called "slumming it" in any other language."

....and UK is also 923-285 in non-conference play...... including 127-64 overall vs. the ACC. Is that 'slumming it' too?

 

[cardsp]

"How hard is it in college basketball to have the glossiest winning percentage against teams with these historical records?
UK vs..........

Mississippi 103-13
Miss State 85-18
Auburn 97-12
So Carolina 50-11
Vandy 146-46 ( a contendah!!)
Florida 97-37
Georgia 119-26

Honestly, that's called "slumming it" in any other language."

....and UK is also 923-285 in non-conference play...... including 127-64 overall vs. the ACC. Is that 'slumming it' too?

"How hard is it in college basketball to have the glossiest winning percentage against teams with these historical records?
UK vs..........

Mississippi 103-13
Miss State 85-18
Auburn 97-12
So Carolina 50-11
Vandy 146-46 ( a contendah!!)
Florida 97-37
Georgia 119-26

Honestly, that's called "slumming it" in any other language."

....and UK is also 923-285 in non-conference play...... including 127-64 overall vs. the ACC. Is that 'slumming it' too?

 

[cardsp]

"How hard is it in college basketball to have the glossiest winning percentage against teams with these historical records?
UK vs..........

Mississippi 103-13
Miss State 85-18
Auburn 97-12
So Carolina 50-11
Vandy 146-46 ( a contendah!!)
Florida 97-37
Georgia 119-26

Honestly, that's called "slumming it" in any other language."

....and UK is also 923-285 in non-conference play...... including 127-64 overall vs. the ACC. Is that 'slumming it' too?

Just curious...do probation year count in these totals?

 

[JC for 3]

When faced with cold, hard truth.... deflect.

 

[zipp]

When you're going back decades, cheating and the quality of your competition are relevant factors.

Also have to consider Pitino Lite's Super Bowl factor when looking at the best OOC teams like Kansas and North Carolina on an otherwise pitiful basketball schedule.

"Elite program", my a$$...

 

[JC for 3]

....so now 'Super Bowl' goes plural..... hilarious. Some serious agenda fitting right there.

I guess other than UNC, UK has a pretty good record in their so-called 'Super Bowls'. (aka games against 'quality' opponents)

22-6 vs. Kansas
32-24 vs. Indiana
33-15 vs. Louisville
12-4 vs. Clemson
28-10 vs. Cincy
11-9 vs. dUKe
8-3 vs. Syracuse
7-4 vs. UCLA
12-11 vs. Michigan St.
43-19 vs. Notre Dame
11-8 vs. Ohio State
11-5 vs. St. John's
4-0 vs. UNLV
6-1 vs. Villanova
6-3 vs. Virginia
5-0 vs. Wake Forest
15-5 vs. West Virginia
4-2 vs. Wisconsin
37-2 vs. Xavier

...damn....that's 307 'Super Bowl' victories....

 

[zipp]

With the typical LPT schedule, you only play a couple of those teams each year. Not the entire list.

Last year, it was Carolina and Louisville.

As Pitino Lite knows, it's easy to just get up for a couple teams on your schedule each season. LPT football fans have beaten that same drum for years.

So, did cheating get dropped from the list of considerations?

"Elite program", my a$$...