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Kentucky High School recruits

mwatson61

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Jun 14, 2005
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The state of KY produces very few D1 level talent each year and even fewer P5 talented kids. UK has two 4 star linemen and now the Daniels kid and feel they have locked up the states best talent. In their opinon, you need to lock up the best talent in your state to win in the SEC. What say you?
 
I think with as few D1 kids as the state produces you need too.
Look at what Petrino did with Brohm and Bush, they were the soul of those great teams.
 
The answer is YES!!!! whatever school gets the top talent in the state of KY, it is a good thing. Tt looks good locally and nationally for the university. Usually the top 4 or 5 in the state of KY every year are really really good football players.
 
I think with as few D1 kids as the state produces you need too.
Look at what Petrino did with Brohm and Bush, they were the soul of those great teams.

Exactly, Ky doesn't produce the numbers to win consistently. But some high level talent does come from the state occasionally. Seems the stars may have aligned for Stoops.
 
I think the discussion is or should be divided into a "Louisville" vs. "rest of State" issue...

High profile kids from Louisville have fared better than their rural counterparts in college and the pros. Whether that's because the better players from Louisville go to U of L and the better kids from the rest of the State go to LPT can be debated. It also could be a function of how much stronger the competition is for high school kids in Louisville.

I don't have the answers, I just know the results. Kentucky kids outside Jefferson County typically underperform relative to expectations.

LPT Football: You'd think we would have learned that...
 
I think the discussion is or should be divided into a "Louisville" vs. "rest of State" issue...

High profile kids from Louisville have fared better than their rural counterparts in college and the pros. Whether that's because the better players from Louisville go to U of L and the better kids from the rest of the State go to LPT can be debated. It also could be a function of how much stronger the competition is for high school kids in Louisville.

I don't have the answers, I just know the results. Kentucky kids outside Jefferson County typically underperform relative to expectations.

LPT Football: You'd think we would have learned that...
Zipp, I hold that same opinion. Having had a son play at Trinity and having one there now, the year around training these kids get is second to none. Not to mention the out of state schedules they have played the last 6-8 years goes a long way in developing kids. I just don't think kids out in the state with the exception of Highlands and Bowling Green get the same opportunity kids in Jefferson County are getting. JMO.
 
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There's some big time football played in Jefferson co high schools. They probably also have better youth programs than rural or small towns.
 
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I think with as few D1 kids as the state produces you need too.
Look at what Petrino did with Brohm and Bush, they were the soul of those great teams.


Brohm and Bush were great players for Louisville, but the teams consisted of so many other great players including Lefors, Douglas, Barnidge, Akoye, Gay and a long list of other great contributors.

As to the OP, yes it is somewhat important to get the best players in the state but some of those guys are just brainwashed and haven't been paying attention to college football in the past 18 years.
 
Brohm and Bush were great players for Louisville, but the teams consisted of so many other great players including Lefors, Douglas, Barnidge, Akoye, Gay and a long list of other great contributors.

As to the OP, yes it is somewhat important to get the best players in the state but some of those guys are just brainwashed and haven't been paying attention to college football in the past 18 years.

I didn't mean they were the only good ones, but they were a huge part of those teams, and they were home grown talent.
 
I didn't mean they were the only good ones, but they were a huge part of those teams, and they were home grown talent.
City of Louisville grown talent. Outside of Tim Couch, who has come from outside of the city of Louisville to make a major difference at UK?
 
Artose Pinner, Jared Lorenzon, Winston Guy, Darrian Miller, Jacob Tamme, Andre Woodson, Craig Yeast off the top of my head.
 
Artose Pinner, Jared Lorenzon, Winston Guy, Darrian Miller, Jacob Tamme, Andre Woodson, Craig Yeast off the top of my head.
I don't have access to Rivals data prior to 2002. Since then, here's the list of 5.7 or higher rated kids from Kentucky who have committed to LPT:

Andre Woodson
Micah Jones
Micah Johnson
Corey Peters
Stuart Hines
Aaron Boyd
Winston Guy
Tim Patterson
Darrian Miller
Zach West
Thomas Chapman
Patrick Towles
Jason Hatcher
Ryan Timmons
Drew Barker


I don't follow the LPT roster that closely. But that list isn't a who's who of kids who have starred for LPT in the last 14 years. Either it's because they weren't that good or because LPT killed their football careers.

It's a reasonable debate as to what performance measure you use for these kids since LPT is such a football doormat. But one thing is obvious...none of them did enough to change that.

LPT Football: The lowest common denominator...
 
I don't have access to Rivals data prior to 2002. Since then, here's the list of 5.7 or higher rated kids from Kentucky who have committed to LPT:

Andre Woodson
Micah Jones
Micah Johnson
Corey Peters
Stuart Hines
Aaron Boyd
Winston Guy
Tim Patterson
Darrian Miller
Zach West
Thomas Chapman
Patrick Towles
Jason Hatcher
Ryan Timmons
Drew Barker


I don't follow the LPT roster that closely. But that list isn't a who's who of kids who have starred for LPT in the last 14 years. Either it's because they weren't that good or because LPT killed their football careers.

It's a reasonable debate as to what performance measure you use for these kids since LPT is such a football doormat. But one thing is obvious...none of them did enough to change that.

LPT Football: The lowest common denominator...
Ding, Ding, Ding leave it to Zipp to make my point. Kids from the sticks will always go to Lexington to make a difference. It's sad they are so brainwashed by their communities to actually make the choice that would be better for their careers.
 
Ding, Ding, Ding leave it to Zipp to make my point. Kids from the sticks will always go to Lexington to make a difference. It's sad they are so brainwashed by their communities to actually make the choice that would be better for their careers.

Brainwashed? Maybe they just want to play for their home team?

Why would Quick want to play at Louisville when he could've went to Ohio St, he'd have played for the national championship.
 
Let's face it, UK will always fare better out in the state and that is indirectly related to the zealous following of basketball. Players and families who don't take the oath of allegiance to the BBN are considered traitors and are harassed, ostracized and cajoled in the small communities they live in. Damien Harris' mother may very well have to move out of the county because of her son's decision to go to Alabama.

It's just the ignorant culture of small town life in Kentucky. They may very well win the state outside of Jefferson Co. but because of the advantages mentioned in other posts, I would be happy to consistently win the county than the state.
 
Let's face it, UK will always fare better out in the state and that is indirectly related to the zealous following of basketball. Players and families who don't take the oath of allegiance to the BBN are considered traitors and are harassed, ostracized and cajoled in the small communities they live in. Damien Harris' mother may very well have to move out of the county because of her son's decision to go to Alabama.

It's just the ignorant culture of small town life in Kentucky. They may very well win the state outside of Jefferson Co. but because of the advantages mentioned in other posts, I would be happy to consistently win the county than the state.

Please list examples, I live out in the hinterlands you described and besides light hearted back and forth people are not ostracized because they root for Louisville.
It's no different than any other rivalry fan base.
 
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Ding, Ding, Ding leave it to Zipp to make my point. Kids from the sticks will always go to Lexington to make a difference. It's sad they are so brainwashed by their communities to actually make the choice that would be better for their careers.

I don't know what point his list proves other than UK football has gotten players from all around the state. We all know UK football has been terrible to average, and those rosters have included kids from many states, some rated the same or higher than the guys he listed.

His statement that some of those kids weren't the "stars" of the UK is incorrect. Woodson, Guy, West, Johnson, Peters, and Miller all did pretty well for themselves. His list also excludes Burton and Tamme. I assume it's because they weren't 5.7 or higher, but they were both top guys in the state(which speaks to the overall talent in the state), and like others he did list, they had some time in the NFL.

It's also worth noting that some of the players he listed are still in the early stages of their careers. Towles is going on his second year as starter, Barker redshirted last year, Hatcher played behind a first round draft pick, and Timmons put up numbers last year better than any receiver UofL has returning on the roster this year.

Finally, UK has had players with successful individual careers from all over the state, just as they've had busts from all over the state, including Louisville. I don't think you have to win the recruiting battle in state to be successful, because the talent level in Ky isn't usually that strong, but this year and next year look to be exceptions. As of now UK has commitments from three Army All Americans, all three from in state. That's a pretty good haul from the state of Kentucky.
 
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The reason I listed 5.7 and higher kids is because the issue is LPT landing highly rated kids from Kentucky, not in-state kids in general. The Daniel kid is rated 5.7; Tamme and Burton were not.

As I said, it may not be entirely accurate or fair to hold the listed guys accountable for LPT's performance during their football careers. That program has long been such a football graveyard, I don't know how the best player in the country would perform at LPT unless he had a number of other good players around him.

BUT, BUT... If you're an LPT fan unduly optimistic because you're landing high 3-star and 4-star kids from Kentucky, then the correlation with LPT's performance is precisely the gauge to use. You're not anxious to land highly rated Kentucky kids simply so you can watch them play, or because they may someday be NFL stars. You want them because--rightly or wrongly--you believe they will lead you to more wins. And there aren't many (or any) kids on that list dating back to 2002 that you can say with certainty got LPT wins they wouldn't have had otherwise.

As far as I'm concerned, I hope these kids keep choosing LPT. I like it when LPT keeps trying to do the same thing while expecting different results.

LPT Football: We know what you mean...
 
I would rather have a 3* kid from Louisville instead of a 4* kid from out in the state, the kids from Louisville play against so much better competition. Paintsville doesn't play against teams that really challenge an athlete just like most of these rural schools. Give me the 3* athletes from Louisville like Devante Parker all day long and I will be happy.
 
As for the guy with the comment about Timmons having better stats than any UofL returning WR, that is false. James quick had better stats playing behind much better players.
 
Please list examples, I live out in the hinterlands you described and besides light hearted back and forth people are not ostracized because they root for Louisville.
It's no different than any other rivalry fan base.

I can support this statement as well. My family and I have been die hard Louisville fans living in predominantly pro-UK Meade County since the late 60s. Other than ribbing and trash talking from my UK buddies, I've never experienced any negative behavior. For the most part, people act differently in person than their online rival counterparts.
 
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The reason I listed 5.7 and higher kids is because the issue is LPT landing highly rated kids from Kentucky, not in-state kids in general. The Daniel kid is rated 5.7; Tamme and Burton were not.

As I said, it may not be entirely accurate or fair to hold the listed guys accountable for LPT's performance during their football careers. That program has long been such a football graveyard, I don't know how the best player in the country would perform at LPT unless he had a number of other good players around him.

BUT, BUT... If you're an LPT fan unduly optimistic because you're landing high 3-star and 4-star kids from Kentucky, then the correlation with LPT's performance is precisely the gauge to use. You're not anxious to land highly rated Kentucky kids simply so you can watch them play, or because they may someday be NFL stars. You want them because--rightly or wrongly--you believe they will lead you to more wins. And there aren't many (or any) kids on that list dating back to 2002 that you can say with certainty got LPT wins they wouldn't have had otherwise.

As far as I'm concerned, I hope these kids keep choosing LPT. I like it when LPT keeps trying to do the same thing while expecting different results.

LPT Football: We know what you mean...
Actually, the issue raised in the OP was locking down the best talent in state. Burton and Tamme definitely fell into that category coming out of high school.

I don't care where the talent comes from, I just want the best players possible. In most years building a class where the best players from Ky are the foundation isn't going to cut it, but those players can certainly help. However, this year and next year may be exceptions. As I said in an earlier post, I'll take three Army All Americans in one recruiting class, even if they are from Ky. I'd assume most here would do the same. That number of Army All Americans is tied for third in the country. I think that's a nice little core to build around.

This in state recruiting strategy isn't the same as in the past, where UK would jump on any instate kid getting noticed by Power 5 schools. There's a kid that recently committed to Duke from the state that was all but being ignored by this UK staff.

I don't want to turn this into another thread where I say UK is recruiting at a level not seen before, and you argue that it's really the same old same old. The good news is that college football is around 60 days away, so we'll find out soon enough.
 
As for the guy with the comment about Timmons having better stats than any UofL returning WR, that is false. James quick had better stats playing behind much better players.

You are correct. They had very similar stats last season. I had been looking at career stats, which obviously isn't a fair comparison to Quick, being that Timmons was a much bigger part of UK's offense his first year than Quick was UofL's. My apologies.
 
all three kids are Under Armour All Americans....just saying.
That might be true, you just aren't going to convince me that these kids have the same football athleticism that a 3* from Louisville has. They just don't play anyone. The same can be said for last seasons boy wonder Matt Elam. Sure he was recruited by Alabama and was an Army boy, we heard it all last year. Once he hit the field he looked and performed like a tub of gue. Slow and fat. But hey, he's had a full off season in that magic Mark Stoops nutrition program. Can't wait to see the results.
 
You realize they generally get the star rating from the camps they visit, not from people watching highlight videos from their HS games?
 
That might be true, you just aren't going to convince me that these kids have the same football athleticism that a 3* from Louisville has. They just don't play anyone. The same can be said for last seasons boy wonder Matt Elam. Sure he was recruited by Alabama and was an Army boy, we heard it all last year. Once he hit the field he looked and performed like a tub of gue. Slow and fat. But hey, he's had a full off season in that magic Mark Stoops nutrition program. Can't wait to see the results.

Matt Elam was a true freshman. I think by his junior season is when we can say whether he was a bust or not.
 
Matt Elam was a true freshman. I think by his junior season is when we can say whether he was a bust or not.
But reading all the hype this time last year on your boards, this kid was expected to be a game changer from day one. Now some of your delusional fans are worried he could be in the NFL after his Junior season. Give me a break. UK fans blow these in-state players into program saviors. It's been a broken record for decades.
 
But reading all the hype this time last year on your boards, this kid was expected to be a game changer from day one. Now some of your delusional fans are worried he could be in the NFL after his Junior season. Give me a break. UK fans blow these in-state players into program saviors. It's been a broken record for decades.

That's because they're used to basketball recruiting. That thar sport with the oblong ball just don't make much sense to em.
 
Matt Elam was a true freshman. I think by his junior season is when we can say whether he was a bust or not.
You know full well how your fans were hyping him last year. No one would be able to run on the Cats with big Elam plugging the middle. That defense was sieve-like against any team that had a pulse. UT-Martin even ran all over you
 
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Actually, the issue raised in the OP was locking down the best talent in state. Burton and Tamme definitely fell into that category coming out of high school...

...As I said in an earlier post, I'll take three Army All Americans in one recruiting class, even if they are from Ky. I'd assume most here would do the same. That number of Army All Americans is tied for third in the country. I think that's a nice little core to build around...
Twice in the OP is a reference to Kentucky's "best talent". According to Rivals, Burton received one other offer--from IU. Tamme's other offers were from IU, Louisville, Northwestern, Purdue, and WVU. The term "best talent" is subjective, but neither guy rises to the level of a highly sought recruit IMO. When Kentucky's talent is way down, getting the best of what's available is not the issue.

Also, other guys on the list I posted above were Army AAs, Elite 11s, and various feel-good, award stuff. So, that's obviously not a point of difference with Stupes' recruits.

LPT Football: Forever trying to argue it's different this time...
 
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BTW, it's important NOT to include in this discussion kids in Kentucky who were not as highly recruited. IMO, much of the problem with 4-star Kentucky kids attending LPT is the entitlement mentality and hero worship baggage that comes along.

Kids like Burton and Tamme come in expecting to have to work hard for playing time. And they improve as a result. Another kid like Elam comes into LPT thinking that playing at 400 lbs is OK because of who he is. Or Drew Barker thinks it doesn't matter how he behaves off the field.

I'm not mixing kids like Tamme and Barker together because they're not the same.

LPT Football: As long as coaching doesn't matter...
 
Compared to the rest of Kentucky? Maybe. Compared to the rest of the US? Not hardly.

Louisville high school football is generally better than out in the
You know full well how your fans were hyping him last year. No one would be able to run on the Cats with big Elam plugging the middle. That defense was sieve-like against any team that had a pulse. UT-Martin even ran all over you

What's the big deal with getting excited about a big time recruit?
What does it matter if the fans hyped him in message boards? That's what fans do.
 
Out in the state of KY you can get some talented kids from Bowling Green,Paducah,Owensboro,Madisonville,Hop-Twn,Lexington,NKY,Glasgow,Hardin Co,etc. The Cards have had kids from all those places in the past....and we'll sign them again....
 
Please list examples, I live out in the hinterlands you described and besides light hearted back and forth people are not ostracized because they root for Louisville.
It's no different than any other rivalry fan base.
You're changing the narrative. My comments were not about fans but about recruits who commit to any school other than UK. Kyle Bolin had a couple of incidents, one when he took his younger brother for pizza, after committing to UL.

You know it's the truth. Some of the posts on your message boards have said as much. Harris has been demonized since he spun UK.
 
Louisville high school football is generally better than out in the


What's the big deal with getting excited about a big time recruit?
What does it matter if the fans hyped him in message boards? That's what fans do.
The funny thing, nobody outside of UK fans thought of him as a big time recruit. Sure Alabama made some noise, he's a dime a dozen in their eyes. UK fans elevated him to legendary status before he set foot on campus. The same thing is being said about the Daniels kid. UK can have these kids. Give me a Jefferson County kid or Florida, Georgia or Alabama second tier kid every day of the week over these kids making a name on single A or 2A programs out in the sticks.
 
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