Almost made it through another year without watching any NBA...

[zipp]

(I personally hate seeing NBA threads here, but since this is an NBA hate thread, maybe I can be forgiven...)

So tired of hearing how this final was different this year. Every damn sportstalk show I dial in contains the obligatory conversation from local guys who simply have nothing else to talk about. And I knew it was off season U of L sports BS. I knew that.

But there I was late Tuesday nite, remote control in hand, flipping through the CATV stations. And a brief pass through CBS told me that it was the 4th quarter and do-or-die time for Cleveland in front of the home fans. So I hesitated...stupidly.

The home team down ten points needed a rally. And in the minute-and-a-half I dropped in, there were probably three possession changes each way. The Champs scored every time against very little defensive pressure.

And I doubled the cumulative amount of time in my life I've watched King James doing his thing, AKA his best impression of a cosmic black hole, in response. Ball goes in, and it doesn't come out. Three jacked up shots, maybe one made basket, and I'm off to the next channel.

I was surprised at how little the Cleveland fans were into the game at that point. Evidently, they cared almost as little as I did.

So DAMN GLAD every time the NBA topic comes up, we don't have that garbage in Louisville on a regular basis. I realize sports guys are paid to talk sports. But try soccer or bowling or just about any other sport besides professional basketball. The product sucks, and I'd rather watch Beverly Hillbillies or Gilligan's Island reruns. Takes me just a minute or two every few years to be reminded...

 

[Cue Card]

I love the game of basketball so I don't hate the NBA. I actually enjoy watching players play at a high level. It's more enjoyable watching a college team come together under the guidance of a great coach, but there is something to be said for watching great players perform at a high level too.

How can anyone not enjoy watching a player like Curry? He is probably the best pure shooting guard on the planet. His cross over step back fade away 3 pointer from 30 feet that is pure is just fun to watch. The young man throws darts. I bet at times that basket looks 30 foot large for him.

Then you have "the greatest player" acting like the tool he is and it makes me laugh out loud when he falls on his face. It's absolutely priceless to see LeBron James crying like the bitch he is. 2-4 now in the finals from the self proclaimed greatest player. LMAO!! That's hilarious! I can think of at least 30 other players (past and present) I would take on my team before James.

Anyway, I understand why people don't care for the NBA and I respect that, but I love the game so I watch it for that reason.

 

[OneEarWonder]

Come now Cue, you don't have to like LeBron to respect him. He is hands down the greatest player of his generation. No one comes close in stats or accomplishments. GoaT is always up for debate, but he can be included in that conversation as well. He basically played 1 on 5 this series and carried the Cavs. Can't win by yourself in a team game. I know everyone likes to compare him to Jordan, but to me, he's more Magic than Jordan, always has been.

I understand people get tired of hype... but the man backs it up, time and again. He could have legitimately been awarded MVP in a loosing effort. I'm just a casual fan, but I'm always impressed with his effort and talent and skill. I watched most of the Finals, the playoffs are the only NBA I watch all year... this was a very entertaining series... every game but 1 seemed to come down to the last minute.

 

[Cue Card]

Come now Cue, you don't have to like LeBron to respect him.

I don't have to respect him. I don't like his attitude. For instance, his recent quote of calling himself the greatest player comes to mind. Regardless if it's true or not, it's not for him to say. It's up to his peers to say that. The mere fact he doesn't have enough class or humility as a human being to know that tells me all I need to know about him as a person.

That's just ONE example. The guy shows his true colors almost every time he opens his mouth. He's a total tool. Everyone knows it. Even the people who respect him.

 

[OneEarWonder]

[QUOTE="Cue Card, post: 65709, member: 2840"The mere fact he doesn't have enough class or humility as a human being to know that tells me all I need to know about him as a person.[/QUOTE]

Wow... I can understand disliking him as a player, but that seems a bit much. Can he be selfish? Sure, who can't. But "as a human" by all accounts, he is very generous, a big philanthropist, a loyal friend, big on youth programs, has NEVER been arrested or in trouble with the law, does not have multiple babies by multiple women, has never been involved in any scandals, etc. The "worst" thing he did was make his stupid "decision" Yeah, he's a really bad person...

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

He didn't say he was a "bad" person, he simply said the guy's personality isn't admirable to him.

And him in some kind of GOAT conversation isn't up for debate, he's not on that in the conversation.

He doesn't have the competitive fire to be compared to Jordan - and that's what's frustrating to fans because he might have the skill/talent - but he lacks the intangible competitive drive to get in the conversation. He's a product of his generaton in that regard, the players are too friendly. They hang out, work out, and for the most part just don't have the competitive nature of the legends prior to this era.

 

[Cue Card]

Wow... I can understand disliking him as a player, but that seems a bit much

We'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't like him, and it's fairly clear you do. I'm not going to change your mind, and I'm too stubborn to change my mind. I know how I feel about him, and this opinion I have of him started forming long before his idiotic "decision" on live TV. He acts like he's entitled instead of understanding he's blessed. I can't help you see that. You either do or you don't.

 

[CardFanBudMan]

I don't have to respect him. I don't like his attitude. For instance, his recent quote of calling himself the greatest player comes to mind. Regardless if it's true or not, it's not for him to say. It's up to his peers to say that. The mere fact he doesn't have enough class or humility as a human being to know that tells me all I need to know about him as a person.

That's just ONE example. The guy shows his true colors almost every time he opens his mouth. He's a total tool. Everyone knows it. Even the people who respect him.

I have no response. That was perfect. That's the way you do it! That's the way you debate!

LJ is a total ass. Let me add, 2 of the Finals he was in they should not have won and did not, both at Cleveland. However, the Heat should have beaten Dallas and a case can be made for beating San Antonio. They were just too selfish. Much of that falls on LJ.

 

[Cardsmack29]

Not a fan of the NBA. I use to be back when Larry Bird, Magic, Michael and Clyde were in their prime. I haven't watched a full NBA game in a very long time. I do try to check up on our former Cards from time to time when their teams are on TV though. I watcehd segments of the finals just to get enough to rememebr why I don't like it anymore. Glad the NBA threads are dying off now. I have no interest either.

 

[OneEarWonder]

He didn't say he was a "bad" person, he simply said the guy's personality isn't admirable to him.

And him in some kind of GOAT conversation isn't up for debate, he's not on that in the conversation.

He doesn't have the competitive fire to be compared to Jordan - and that's what's frustrating to fans because he might have the skill/talent - but he lacks the intangible competitive drive to get in the conversation. He's a product of his generaton in that regard, the players are too friendly. They hang out, work out, and for the most part just don't have the competitive nature of the legends prior to this era.

Not in the conversation? Just look at his numbers AND his impact on the game.

Not sure I consider being friendly with other players a bad thing. You can be friendly and competitive. LBJ, like may All Stars, are ultra competitive. Look at how he as improved his game year over year. Plus 5 straight Finals. Look at year before/year after. First year at Miami, Finals and CLE collapsed. First year back at CLE, Finals and MIA was no where to be seen. Yes it takes more than him, but his impact is obvious.

For the record, I think Jordan was the single greatest player ever in the NBA. He was not perfect, but he was darn near untouchable on the court. Jordan was (and is) a grade A a**hole. LBJ, IMO, is also one of the all time greats, he elevates the game and those around him (like Magic)... I know people get sick him the coverage of him... but I appreciate greatness when I see it.

 

[Cue Card]

Jordan was (and is) a grade A a**hole.

I don't like Jordon either.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Not in the conversation?

No. He's not.

Just look at his numbers

Were taken into consideration. I know what he does out there.


Not sure I consider being friendly with other players a bad thing.

In terms of being the GOAT, if he's winning bushels of titles he can be nice. He can act any way he wants really. But he's not winning bushels of titles, so hugging it out shouldn't be in his vocab.

You can be friendly and competitive.

Not feeling that.

LBJ, like may All Stars, are ultra competitive.

Right, he's like other All Stars. But we're talking GOAT talk here, and he's not in the GOAT conversation. I will say he is the best All Star, but not GOAT conversation.

Look at how he as improved his game year over year.

Golf clap for that, @ the end of the day, right now he's got two titles via a merger. Merging is not GOAT like. Come on.

Plus 5 straight Finals.

Merging impact, losing record in the Finals.

For the record, I think Jordan was the single greatest player ever in the NBA.

So does everybody else. So you scored a point here.

LBJ, IMO, is also one of the all time greats

No doubt. But, we're talking GOAT I thought, not just being great. Yeah he's great. He's just not the best ever, and not in the running.

 

[zipp]

From what I've heard, Sacramento is/was fun to watch. I'll never know, at least about this year's team.

I'd like to know if I'm supposed to watch the NBA because it's the best players in the game, as I always hear?

Does that mean Sacramento has the best players in the game? Or they just play together the best? And how do I know they're the best?

Didn't they just beat Jesus Christ and ten guys named "Clyde"? That's what everyone says, and that's what Jesus himself keeps telling us.

Am I supposed to credit beating THAT team as meaning you're the best?

And isn't a college basketball team where one guy guns the ball and the other four stand around and watch considered "bad basketball"?

Is the glimpse I saw where little or no defense was played typical or an exception of the NBA and this series?

And King James help me, I haven't even gotten around to the knuckleheads and embarrassment that many of these guys are OFF the court.

I'm going to contact Time Warner in a minute to see if the NBA Channel can be permanently removed from my channel line-up. No way I can get back that two minutes of my life I wasted...

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Sacramento was terrible. They were fun to watch if you needed a fixin on bad basketball or wanted to see Cousins blow his stack and get random techs.

 

[J-Rye_UL]

This thread is like my son telling me he hates hamburger, even though he's never eaten hamburger.

No sense debating with a closed mind.

 

[zipp]

This thread is like my son telling me he hates hamburger, even though he's never eaten hamburger.

No sense debating with a closed mind.

Assuming you've never eaten a poop sandwich, I wanna hear how much you're waiting to find one...

 

[J-Rye_UL]

Assuming you've never eaten a poop sandwich, I wanna hear how much you're waiting to find one...

I've never tried a poop sandwich, because poop isn't food, there aren't a hundred million people eating poop sandwiches, and the poop sandwich industry doesn't bring in 4.8 billion dollars in revenue.

 

[zipp]

And how does that define quality?

Justin Bieber earned $80 million last year. Miley Cyrus also made the list...

 

[shadow force]

Zipp- If you hate the NBA then that's your choice but you picked one of the worst spots to finally take in a tiny portion of a playoff game. You should've watched game 1 or 2 of the Finals that went into OT and were quite entertaining. Or some of the 7 game Clippers/Spurs series which was really good.

 

[J-Rye_UL]

And how does that define quality?

Justin Bieber earned $80 million last year. Miley Cyrus also made the list...

The money it makes does not define quality, and art is a perfect example of that. However, it does imply that it may be worth actually watching before writing it off.

Had you watched a larger sample size, you might have liked some of the things Golden State does on the basketball court - best defense and 2nd best offense in the league. Great ball movement, nearly every shot coming off a pass, excellent halfcourt traps. This entire series was a chess match. Kerr captured the queen when he started Iguodala and went to small ball in the 4th game.

 

[Steelers2012]

Sacramento basketball, Justin Bieber, Miley Cyrus and poop sandwiches. This has turned into one hell of a strange thread.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

The NBA has some shine and some bleh. It's a long season. Sometimes the atmosphere is great, other times there are a few thousand people watching, it just depends on the night and the site.

The officiating is comical, a lot of guys settle for jumpers, and the fall of the C makes the product hard to endorse. The league has gone out of the way to clean up fighting and arguing w/ refs, which were a couple of nice draws you wouldn't see @ a college game.

Now the players are all pals or strangely gangster, I don't know it's not really for me but I roll NBA fantasy basketball leagues so I won't pretend I'm not paying attention. That's more about gambling than the product itself though.

Almost forgot, the stretch 5 and stretch 4 is just painful and allows sub standard soft Euros or lazy athletic bigs a chance to take the easy way out and just hoist set shots after a G dribbles around and finds them standing all alone. It's rather a shame to see so many big guys have absolutely no moves and flex an inability to make 5 foot bank shots.

 

[JC for 3]

I think there's another reason he doesn't like the NBA.... he just hasn't said it.

 

[zipp]

Zipp- If you hate the NBA then that's your choice but you picked one of the worst spots to finally take in a tiny portion of a playoff game. You should've watched game 1 or 2 of the Finals that went into OT and were quite entertaining. Or some of the 7 game Clippers/Spurs series which was really good.

I'll admit if I haven't already that it wasn't a scientific sample. Or a sample I cared to take scientifically.

But let's be honest... Wouldn't it be logical to expect a couple minutes in the 4th quarter of an elimination game of the NBA finals in front of the home fans to be a little intense? And to be played at a pretty high level? Didn't it feature the best player in the game--maybe the history of the game--trying to carry a team on his back and gut it out? And with that as the backdrop, some of you NBA guys are telling me I didn't get a representative sample? Pardon the pun, but shouldn't getting a good sample at that time have been a slam dunk?

I think some of you guys are group thinkers and/or blinded by the sheer athletic ability of the best athletes on the planet. Being better than us athletically doesn't mean I tune it in. Speaking of tunes, Justin and Miley can probably carry a better one than I can too...

 

[zipp]

The money it makes does not define quality, and art is a perfect example of that. However, it does imply that it may be worth actually watching before writing it off...

I'm just applying the same sort of criteria that you did to justify watching NBA basketball. The "everyone else is doing it" mentality. And obviously, that may not be relevant...

 

[EasyCard]

I watch enough of the Finals to know the Final Four was 10 times a better basketball fan experience than the NBA Finals.

GS was a very good team, but they didnt play any of the good teams. No Spurs, No Durant Thunder, No Love and Irving Cavs.

The only reason this game went to 6 games was because the NBA season is so long and the Warriors were spent in game 4. The Cavs were physically exhausted after game 4 and never recovered.

Are we supposed to be entertained by horrible outside shooting all series by the Cavs? Anyone who didn't have advertisement dollars to sell knew this final was over when Love and Irving went down.

 

[zipp]

I think there's another reason he doesn't like the NBA.... he just hasn't said it.

Well, why don't you please administer a little slapd!ck psychoanalysis?

One thing we can dismiss as a reason is that the finals had too many ex-LPT players in the games.

"Elite program", my a$$...

 

[OmegaCard]

I remember when MJ got a lot of criticism early in his career. Veteran stars used to criticize the favoritism shown towards his game from the officials. He did hit a lot of free throws in his career. Where MJ really shined was his ability to hit game winners.

LBJ isn't even in the greatest player of all time debate. You could argue him and Koby played against weaker (guys selected for potential) competition. Had he had to go up against guys like Mason, Barkley, Oakely and Malone every night, I don't think so....IMO he's more fabricated than a boy band. A lot of these stars are and that's what sucks about the NBA these days.

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Omega don't forget about all the legendary big men that they got to avoid too. No Hakeem, no Ewing, no Admiral. Throw in guys like the ones you mentioned and I'll add Clyde Drexler, Bird, Rodman, Stockton, etc, etc, etc....

Watered down product with a bunch of Gs/Wings shooting contested jumpers and/or bigs shooting uncovered set shots.

 

[zipp]

Geez, now I'm REALLY regretting not watching one of the best finals in recent memory.



So, what's happened to the representative sample guys??

 

[J-Rye_UL]

I'm just applying the same sort of criteria that you did to justify watching NBA basketball. The "everyone else is doing it" mentality. And obviously, that may not be relevant...

You're stretching here. You asked me if I'd like to eat a "turd sandwich". My response was that "turd sandwiches" don't exactly generate enough interest to garner a 2nd look. The NBA (and Miley Cirus) have clearly captivated the minds of millions of people. In those cases, it takes more than tuning in for the last minute of a Finals series that has already been decided to form an educated opinion. You admitted to watching 2 of the 298 minutes that were played in the NBA Finals. You've already admitted that wasn't enough to form an opinion. You're buying into the anti NBA culture without ever taking the time to form an opinion for yourself.

That said, I completely understand why people wouldn't be a fan of the NBA, especially in a college sports town. More than half of the atheletes are entitled asshats that would bring nothing to society in a basketball free world. I "get" that angle. I also understand the game looks a LOT different than the product we're used to watching at UofL. The thing is, this Finals series was the most "college" NBA Finals I can ever remember. The defense and effort in the Final Four were not as intense as what I saw in Games 2 and 3 of the Finals.

I watch enough of the Finals to know the Final Four was 10 times a better basketball fan experience than the NBA Finals.

GS was a very good team, but they didnt play any of the good teams. No Spurs, No Durant Thunder, No Love and Irving Cavs.

The only reason this game went to 6 games was because the NBA season is so long and the Warriors were spent in game 4. The Cavs were physically exhausted after game 4 and never recovered.

Are we supposed to be entertained by horrible outside shooting all series by the Cavs? Anyone who didn't have advertisement dollars to sell knew this final was over when Love and Irving went down.

Your opinion of the Finals vs Final Four is just your opinon. As a basketball fan - and not just a college basketball fan - I enjoyed the Finals just as much as the Final Four. I watched every minute of each event.

GS knocked out every other member of the All-NBA 1st Team. Anthony Davis (Pelicans), Marc Gasol (Grizzlies), James Harden (Rockets), and Lebron James (Cavs). The Spurs were a 6 seed who lost in the first round - hardly setting the bar as a great team this year. The 2015 Warriors won more games this season than any NBA team except the 96' and 97' Bulls.

Since when was the quality of a team defined by outside shooting? That was Golden State's bread and butter, not the Cavs. Cavs won 2 straight after Irving went down, and made their entire run without Love. There was an interesting dynamic between the league MVP with the better team vs. the current best player in the world. If Cleveland was even halfway competent while James was getting a breather, they win this series. James ran out of gas.

Omega don't forget about all the legendary big men that they got to avoid too. No Hakeem, no Ewing, no Admiral. Throw in guys like the ones you mentioned and I'll add Clyde Drexler, Bird, Rodman, Stockton, etc, etc, etc....

Watered down product with a bunch of Gs/Wings shooting contested jumpers and/or bigs shooting uncovered set shots.

The big men were definitely elite back in the day, but people overlook how dominant the guards are in today's game. The 80's and 90's would shat their figurative pants if Derrick Rose, Russell Westbrook, and Steph Curry were playing PG back then. Gary Payton was the closest thing to a big, athletic PG in the 90's. Now they're a dime a dozen. It's a tradeoff. The 80's and 90's were defined by great big men and post play. The 2000's have been dominated by excellent perimeter play with big, athletic guards.

 

[zipp]

You used simple popularity stats to, I guess, try to demonstrate the quality of the product. Millions of people in the world get together to do what looks like stupid stuff to me. Wanna talk dancing and reality TV shows?

The point is, that's an irrelevant indicator that you brought into the discussion.

And I didn't admit to not watching "enough to form an opinion". I admitted to not sampling randomly to form an opinion. No, I looked at what arguably should have been some of the best minutes in the six games that were played, six games that should have been in a discussion of the best six games in the entire NBA season. If I wanted the best glimpse of the NBA from an outsider's perspective, the two minutes I dropped into would have been suggested prospectively by a lot of NBA fans.

Truth be told, I've seen enough of the NBA in my recent life to know what I was going to see in those two minutes. This was just the latest sample. And it confirmed for me that most of the talking heads proclaiming what a great basketball series it was are diehard NBA fans, trying to affiliate and be part of an alleged NBA renaissance, succumbing temporarily or permanently to NBA hype, or just bored for the Summer...

 

[J-Rye_UL]

You used simple popularity stats to, I guess, try to demonstrate the quality of the product. Millions of people in the world get together to do what looks like stupid stuff to me. Wanna talk dancing and reality TV shows?

The point is, that's an irrelevant indicator that you brought into the discussion.

And I didn't admit to not watching "enough to form an opinion". I admitted to not sampling randomly to form an opinion. No, I looked at what arguably should have been some of the best minutes in the six games that were played, six games that should have been in a discussion of the best six games in the entire NBA season. If I wanted the best glimpse of the NBA from an outsider's perspective, the two minutes I dropped into would have been suggested prospectively by a lot of NBA fans.

Truth be told, I've seen enough of the NBA in my recent life to know what I was going to see in those two minutes. This was just the latest sample. And it confirmed for me that most of the talking heads proclaiming what a great basketball series it was are diehard NBA fans, trying to affiliate and be part of an alleged NBA renaissance, succumbing temporarily or permanently to NBA hype, or just bored for the Summer...

No, I did not use those popularity statistics to define quality. I used them to say you should take the time to understand the quality by watching more than 2 minutes. You did not get an accurate picture of the series in those 2 minutes. I'm sure you're aware of this, but maybe not ... Golden State was up 15 points late in the 4th quarter. The series was over. Fans were leaving and commentators were congratulating the victors with about 3 minutes left. Then J.R. Smith starts raining inconsequential 3's to put them within striking distance. The lucky 3's stopped falling and the series was over. That was the portion of the NBA Finals that you tuned in for. I watched every minute of the series, and I was tuning out at the same time you were tuning in. Watch the 2nd halves and games 2 and 5 if you want a better representation of the series. I'm sure you're not interested, and that's cool. I don't really care if anyone else enjoys the NBA, but I like to be objective about it. A major part of my interest in the NBA revolves around the fact that college basketball is over. I just love the sport, and I'm willing to watch all variations of it. The NBA Playoffs are a very good product.

 

[zipp]

To address anyone who may be trying to climb aboard the NBA bandwagon, fearing it may be leaving the station without you...

First, my sympathies. Try thinking for yourself and not what your drinking buddies or the four-letter network hype machine are trying to overwhelm you with. If the Chinese wanna immerse themselves in it, fine. Few of you are studying Mandarin, right?

Try looking at the product and objective information and not what others are telling you. And try to ignore schlock pieces like this one from ESPN.com written purely to impress you or make you feel left out...

"The 2015 NBA Finals between the Golden State Warriors and Cleveland Cavaliers is the most watched series since 1998, Michael Jordan's last season with the Chicago Bulls.

The series averaged 19.94 million viewers on ABC, breaking the post-Jordan Finals record of an average of 18.9 million viewers that was garnered by the 2001 NBA Finals between the Los Angeles Lakers and the Philadelphia 76ers.

The 2015 matchup featuring Warriors guard Stephen Curry and Cavs forward LeBron James was boosted by the viewership of Tuesday night's Game 6 series finale, which scored 23,254,000 viewers, according to Nielsen. It was the most watched NBA Finals game since Game 7 of the 2013 Finals between the Miami Heat and the San Antonio Spurs.

The 2015 Finals averaged more than double the viewership of the 2007 Finals, James' first championship series appearance. That showdown against the Spurs averaged 9.3 million viewers, the least watched championship series in TV history.

The six Finals series James has been in have averaged 16.1 million viewers, while the six Finals featuring Jordan averaged 25.2 million viewers. To be fair, Jordan's games were played at a time when there were fewer options on television and no digital alternative."

Sounds impressive. But what important data are behind that story?...

• Viewership for the Finals were higher than they have been in 14 years, since 2001. Any guess what they were prior to 2001? How about HIGHER, a lot higher and for many years. NBA Finals viewership fell as far down as it had been since they started tracking it. And it's starting to recover, but it's nowhere near what it once was. (That bandwagon you're chasing is an old rust bucket that someone repaired and got started...)

• The final game on Tuesday drew more viewers than any NBA Finals game since GAME 7 of the Heat-Spurs series in 2013, way back TWO YEARS AGO.

• The Finals to date featuring Lebron James have been outdrawn by the same featuring Michael Jordan by FIFTY PERCENT.

[Reminds me of when I hear in the news that the stock market just set a new high. Means it's been flat since ten years ago or whenever the prior high was...]

If you wanna see objective NBA viewership data for a much longer time frame that tell the real story...

Yeah, the NBA is not still scraping along the bottom (unless you're talking about the regular season when it's never been in worse shape from a viewership standpoint). But if you're standing on the sidelines with me, EZ, and some others, you're still standing in a huge crowd. And James and Curry notwithstanding, it doesn't look like that's significantly changing anytime soon...

 

[zipp]

No, I did not use those popularity statistics to define quality. I used them to say you should take the time to understand the quality by watching more than 2 minutes...

And how would those statistics tell me that?? Stats which BTW are misleading if you've read the prior post...

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

The big men were definitely elite back in the day, but people overlook how dominant the guards are in today's game. The 80's and 90's would shat their figurative pants if Derrick Rose, Russell Westbrook, and Steph Curry were playing PG back then. Gary Payton was the closest thing to a big, athletic PG in the 90's. Now they're a dime a dozen. It's a tradeoff. The 80's and 90's were defined by great big men and post play. The 2000's have been dominated by excellent perimeter play with big, athletic guards.

There were plenty of capable PGs in the 80s, with size too... Magic Johnson was better than anybody you could name playing PG today, during his time, or before his time. The best PG to ever play the game played in that era. He defines the position, with more size than any other. The guy won a title starting at C, he was that versatile. There isn't a PG today that could carry his luggage.

Isaiah is the #3 all-time best PG, another from that era. What he doesn't have in height he makes up for with ease. I understand why people wouldn't like him but he's a legend, a legend with titles.

Kevin Johnson and GP could also knuckle up with any of the guys today. Those guys aren't shatting their pants over Rose, they'd go toe to toe with him. I'd take GP for sure, and I give the nod to KJ too. The guy played @ a high level for over a decade.

The 90s Penny, the guy was 6-7, the next Magic...another guy you forgot about would do some things vs these guys also. Jason Kidd had size to stick with today's PG, and he was much more skilled.

I won't get too much into Tim Hardaway or John Stockton either, but those guys were effin bulldogs. I'm sure there are others. These are just the stud PGs I think of in 2 minutes.

I'm not trying to short change today's "player", but guys that stuff stat sheets don't really "get" what it takes to be in the same breath as the guys I mentioned above. Those guys are world class winners. Highly skilled, enough size, etc.

 

[OmegaCard]

The big men were definitely elite back in the day, but people overlook how dominant the guards are in today's game. The 80's and 90's would shat their figurative pants if Derrick Rose, Russell Westbrook, and Steph Curry were playing PG back then. Gary Payton was the closest thing to a big, athletic PG in the 90's. Now they're a dime a dozen. It's a tradeoff. The 80's and 90's were defined by great big men and post play. The 2000's have been dominated by excellent perimeter play with big, athletic guards.

This is hilarious. The 80's and 90's were full of great big guards. In fact, the SF and SG were often interchangeable. -Reggie Miller 6'7, Clyde the glide 6'7, Magic Johnson 6'8, Chris Mullins, Jason Kidd, Mitch Richmond, John Stockton, Tim Hardaway, Penny Hardaway...and these guys played against men. You had already proven yourself by the time you hit the court back then. Not some potential Jersey seller or one of WWW's boy bands. I'd take Tim Hardaway all day long over Rose or Westbrook. Heck 6'1" John Stockton would have destroyed those guys.

And most of the championships won in the 2000's were with a dominant big man. --Shaq, Duncan, Wallace, Garnett

 

[OmegaCard]

There were plenty of capable PGs in the 80s, with size too... Magic Johnson was better than anybody you could name playing PG today, during his time, or before his time. The best PG to ever play the game played in that era. He defines the position, with more size than any other. The guy won a title starting at C, he was that versatile. There isn't a PG today that could carry his luggage.

Isaiah is the #3 all-time best PG, another from that era. What he doesn't have in height he makes up for with ease. I understand why people wouldn't like him but he's a legend, a legend with titles.

Kevin Johnson and GP could also knuckle up with any of the guys today. Those guys aren't shatting their pants over Rose, they'd go toe to toe with him. I'd take GP for sure, and I give the nod to KJ too. The guy played @ a high level for over a decade.

The 90s Penny, the guy was 6-7, the next Magic...another guy you forgot about would do some things vs these guys also. Jason Kidd had size to stick with today's PG, and he was much more skilled.

I won't get too much into Tim Hardaway or John Stockton either, but those guys were effin bulldogs. I'm sure there are others. These are just the stud PGs I think of in 2 minutes.

I'm not trying to short change today's "player", but guys that stuff stat sheets don't really "get" what it takes to be in the same breath as the guys I mentioned above. Those guys are world class winners. Highly skilled, enough size, etc.

Awesome. i didn't see this post until just now. Too funny we mentioned a lot of the same guys. I'd add Latrell Sprewell. Small guards my a$$. LOL

 

[Ipartiedwithhopgood]

Awesome. i didn't see this post until just now. Too funny we mentioned a lot of the same guys. I'd add Latrell Sprewell. Small guards my a$$. LOL

The players today are more physically gifted in some instances, I won't pretend that isn't applicable logic.

But so much of the game is between the ears. I could pick apart guys I see today, and maybe in the 80s some of the stars made similar mistakes.

To say today's PGs would dominate the 80s PGs is a stretch- Two of the top 3 PGS of all-time played in the 80s, they won titles, and they were the best players on those title teams.

 

[J-Rye_UL]

This is hilarious. The 80's and 90's were full of great big guards. In fact, the SF and SG were often interchangeable. -Reggie Miller 6'7, Clyde the glide 6'7, Magic Johnson 6'8, Chris Mullins, Jason Kidd, Mitch Richmond, John Stockton, Tim Hardaway, Penny Hardaway...and these guys played against men. You had already proven yourself by the time you hit the court back then. Not some potential Jersey seller or one of WWW's boy bands. I'd take Tim Hardaway all day long over Rose or Westbrook. Heck 6'1" John Stockton would have destroyed those guys.

And most of the championships won in the 2000's were with a dominant big man. --Shaq, Duncan, Wallace, Garnett

There seems to be a lot of hate for the NBA farm team down the road, which is causing a lot of hate for the NBA in general. No offense to John Stockton, he's a legend, but Steph Curry is a different breed of PG that just carried his team to a title - something John Stockton couldn't do with another Hall of Famer on his team. Want to talk about great shooting? Reggie Miller held the record with 58 3-pt shots hit in a single NBA Playoff with 58 - Steph Curry just hit 98 in 2015. Magic is another phenomenal all time PG. But Lebron James is doing the same thing Magic did back in the day, aside from winning titles with James Worthy and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. I understand the NBA product was better in the 80's and 90's, but that doesn't make it unwatchable or unrespectable in 2015. There are players making history today, just like they were in the 80's. But it's a different game.